Beat This voting changes?

Iron Keys

Leave your EDM in the bin on your way in
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 23
As above.

Dunno best way mathematically to do it. Could just say "pick 3 beats" and it all just get tallied up at the end.
Or pick your 1st 2nd n 3rd n the vote gets different value. (5 votes maybe too many)

I'm not too fussed. It could make certain beats that deserve more love get recognition. But it could also just boost the current vibe of voting.

Maybe we could just change the voters instead :woot:
 

Fade

The Beat Strangler
Administrator
*** illest o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
Well as I mentioned in earlier posts, there needs to be a top 5. Why? Because we had a top 3 then people complained that it would be nice to have a top 5. So I've kept it.

Here's my idea:

Everyone votes normally. This time though, each vote counts for 5 points.
Then I create my own top 5. Each one is 5 points.

But if someone in my top 5 has been voted on in the regular votes, then my vote for them counts for 10 points.

So like this:
  • Beat #1 has 5 regular votes: 25 points.
  • Beat #2 has 4 regular votes: 20 points.
  • Beat #3 has 2 regular votes: 10 points.
My top 5 is like this:
  • Beat #2
  • Beat #3
  • Beat #1
This means:
  • Beat #1: 5 regular votes: 25 points + 10 points from me = 35 points.
  • Beat #2: 4 regular votes: 20 points + 10 points from me = 30 points.
  • Beat #3: 2 regular votes: 10 points + 10 points from me = 20 points.
Now this doesn't change the outcome, but what if I don't have Beat #1 and Beat #3 on my list?
  • Beat #2: 4 regular votes: 20 points + 10 points from me = 30 points.
  • Beat #1: 5 regular votes: 25 points.
  • Beat #3: 2 regular votes: 10 points.
Keep in mind that I'm just showing an example of 3 contestants but we usually average about 20 or so. My top 5 might not contain anyone from the regular votes. This means a big change in the outcome.
 
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Iron Keys

Leave your EDM in the bin on your way in
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 23
Just to clarify... when i say "3 votes" i don't mean only a top 3 place. Just that illiens get 3 votes each, but still a top 5.

My perception of it is dope beats will still get voted for and keep their likelihood of win/place, and it hopefully prevents otherwise dope beats from missing out.

Say for example Primz subs a dope beat, say 3 of us go "shit that's hot" but vote eslewhere for whatever reason. Primz beat may not place. Then some wonky beat places. Then illiens are like "wtf why didn't primz beat place... and why did some dud beat place?"
Whereas if illiens had 3 votes. Then it's less likely Primz beat would (maybe unjustly) miss out. But it doesnt stop the hot beats gettinf votes either.

I can't know for sure if it will in practise work like that. But that's my kinda idea.
_____


For example, last beat this Moselly and Kooldj were my 2 favourite beats. I voted kooldj, moselly missed out on win, kooldj didnt place. Now if i or others voted moselly they may have won. Or maybe kooldj would have placed. Maybe not. Maybe it wouldn't change outcomes or only strengthen outcomes. But maybe less beats miss out.
Or maybe it's fine as it is - you win or you don't. But maybe the runners up can seem suspect at times.

If any of that makes sense.
 

Fade

The Beat Strangler
Administrator
*** illest o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
Yeah but that's an issue though. Years ago everyone would post their top 3 but there would still be some that didn't. They'd only post 1 or 2. I've been saying it for years that it's hard to get everyone on the same page. From what I've learned, I can't rely on everyone to follow rules and procedures, so that's why we now have the single vote.

If I made it so everyone gets to choose 3 beats, that's great but that's not going to happen unless I force them to with the voting form but then they might just throw in someone else for the hell of it, or just get discouraged and end up not voting at all.

It's never a perfect system but I think we've covered all the possible scenarios at this point. The main issue is the amount of voters, plain and simple.
 

Iron Keys

Leave your EDM in the bin on your way in
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 23
Yeah it's tricky i guess.
Because it's all just fun n games, but also deserves a bit more love than that.

The mix of small vote numbers, different voting agendas etc can make outcomes seem maybe unsatisfactory to many.

Tough one really.

I guess the small vote numbers was an argument for people getting more votes.
 

Iron Keys

Leave your EDM in the bin on your way in
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 23
everyone would post their top 3 but there would still be some that didn't. They'd only post 1 or 2
If I made it so everyone gets to choose 3 beats, that's great but that's not going to happen unless I force them to
So what's your thoughts around this... if you gave people say a maximum of 2-3 votes?? But people don't have to make more than 1 vote??

Even merely giving people 1 extra vote has the effect of 'increasing' votes.

To those who only think 1 beat deserves a win aren't forced to give a vote to something undeserving, nor to just ranomly click one to meet requirements. But to those who are torn maybe between 2 beats can just hit 'em both. (yeah i get it, what if someone's torn between 2nd choice beat n so forth - but better than having maybe 4 beats fighting for one spot) i dunno
I remember saying 5 votes are too many, maybe even 3 is. Maybe not. If it's not a forced 3 and only optional maybe it's fine. It depends.

What are your thoughts??
 

Fade

The Beat Strangler
Administrator
*** illest o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
I really don't want to do that and give people the option to submit more than 1 vote. First of all, that would mean I'd have to re-do the whole thing. But also, like I said there's no guarantee.

Let's say only 6 people vote. Then it doesn't matter if it's only 1 vote or they submit 3. Either way the outcome is determined by only 6 people.

I propose we do it as I mentioned earlier. For the next one we could do it like we have now, and I'll show those results. But once the battle is over I'll also post how it would end up with the new system where my votes count for double. I'd like to see how it turns out that way just so we can compare.
 

Iron Keys

Leave your EDM in the bin on your way in
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 23
I really don't want to do that and give people the option to submit more than 1 vote. First of all, that would mean I'd have to re-do the whole thing. But also, like I said there's no guarantee.

Let's say only 6 people vote. Then it doesn't matter if it's only 1 vote or they submit 3. Either way the outcome is determined by only 6 people.

I propose we do it as I mentioned earlier. For the next one we could do it like we have now, and I'll show those results. But once the battle is over I'll also post how it would end up with the new system where my votes count for double. I'd like to see how it turns out that way just so we can compare.
I mean i don't understand the technical issues of what you gotta do to change things. But could it just be the same way but lets people click 'vote' on two things instead of one??

even if only 6 people voting, it could have a big effect on the outcome.
example

say 4 users all vote different. and 2 users vote the same (for say BeatA).

BeatA 2
BeatB 1
BeatC 1
BeadD 1
BeatE 1

Say they had potential of even just 1 extra vote each, this time several pick a beat they really liked/were pulled between vote...

BeatF 4
BeatA 3
BeatD 2
BeatC 1
BeatE 1
BeatG 1

Now this is just obviously a small example but it shows how a track that doesn't place in the current 1 vote could potentially win with a multiple vote system.
This also doesn't mean that "BeatA" or a beat that would have won won't win, if anything if it's genuinely good it will still receive votes from the extra votes... either helping it secure win, or keeping it high. The only time it would get negatively affected too much is if maybe it "didn't deserve" it so to speak.

But what this does mean, is often we seem to get (more particularly the runners up section) people saying things like "how 'tf did xyzbeat place?!" or "how the fuck did Beat1234 not even place?!"
With people having more than 1 vote, potentially (or ideally) this could lead to genuinely decent beats placing (or winning) where they otherwise wouldn't.... and hopefully result in seeing a more honest/accurate/deserved outcome.

Will it definitely work perfect or as intended? No idea. Will it work better?! Maybe? Will some people still be like 'how did that not place?' probably... but maybe less so?

I dunno. My only interest in this is to try and help the thing, with the goal of it giving beats a more deserved shout.
 

Iron Keys

Leave your EDM in the bin on your way in
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 23
But probably just end up all the kids putting extra votes to trap beats :woot:
 

Iron Keys

Leave your EDM in the bin on your way in
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 23
For example, sometimes I base my vote decision between two beats because I think "other people will probably vote for this one" and so leave it out. I dunno if that's fair or what. Just tryin' to give beats their recognition. Hence partly why i post my 'lists' after.
 

Fade

The Beat Strangler
Administrator
*** illest o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
Yeah allowing multiple votes would be a real pain to code. Like I said, I'd first have to force people to choose 3 but still it's a lot to do. The other thing like you mentioned though, is it could also be people just voting for a certain style or mix, or whatever.

It's never going to be perfect. I would always look at the DMC battles on how they did their votes which were simple but it's also different because each year there was clearly one DJ that was going to win. With Beat This it's hard because a lot of times there's a lot of good beats and no clear winner.

There might be times when there's let's say 12 voters but maybe 4 are newbies so maybe they don't really know what to look for and are just voting based on style. We could have just judges instead but then even that will have people question the outcome.

Or we could just say fuck it and let me pick the top 5 and no one challenge my decision. I HAVE SPOKEN! would be my response.
 

Iron Keys

Leave your EDM in the bin on your way in
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 23
But yeah i dunno... i think the idea of letting members vote is kind of best, i dunno. Mainly cause you get a mix of likes. And maybe people just reacting genuinely.

It's tough tho like you say...
Illiens vote: maybe loads of trap kids all voting trap beats; boombappers exclusively not voting trap; people voting cause they recognise who made it; people not voting; people voting based on mix quality; people voting on song quality.

Fade votes: (i know you approach it genuinely) but of course people could have problems still, or it's still ultimately about your own opinion /tastes n biases.

Selection of judges: this one is kind of a mix of the "illiens" and "fade" vote reasons.

I think for the selection of judges one to work, it needs to be a nice blend of judges --- but if they're votinf individually it could be no real different to how voting is now. And if it had to be like a joint decision, could be difficult all agreeing?


The illiens voting is both a pro and con for the same reason... the mix of reasons people are voting, gives diverse feedback.
 

Fade

The Beat Strangler
Administrator
*** illest o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
I used to pick about 4 or 5 judges and they'd PM me their top 5. It was pretty good but like I said before, some would only give me 1, 2, or 3. Plus I'd have to wait for some of the judges to PM me, which holds up the battle.

So there's no perfect way. Most of the time I think people just vote based on personal tastes, and that's expected, so we have no choice but to accept that. When I do AOTB I'm always fair and judge it based on everything, not personal tastes.

With the next battle we'll do it the same but I'll also provide my top 5 when it's over so we can see what kind of difference it makes, and take it from there.
 

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