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- Thread starter Wesbeats
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Hi Illiens!
Long time no see I guess.My post will be too long too read and verbose as most of my messages here at Ill but maybe it will be helpful to someone. Treat it as two non-important cents from me regarding this topic.
Yeah, but it wasn't because they didn't see or hear it was garbage (although this may have also happened). It was because KANYE made it and released it. At some level of popularity this kind of things are "approvable" by the audience and/or followers. It's about the power of the brand. Same thing would happen with Ozzy Osbourne, Miles Davis etc. They could literally record their farts and trust me there will be people who would buy it.
It applies to every industry. For example I would never buy a regular T-shirt from Balenciaga with just a writing "Balenciaga" on it for let's say $5000 because it's completely mental thing to me. And it's not about the budget. It's about the nonsense of buying a regular T-shirt for $5000. Yet, there will be people who would proudly wear this type of clothes and will buy them eagerly. Because of the brand.
It's the power of the brand. If "Memento Beats" released electronic garbage as you put it then no one would give a damn about it. It's because my brand is microscopic or even non-existent compared to Kanye's. But if I was in Kanye's position then I would be able to sell crap too. It would be possible for every person or company out there. You would be able to do it because of the level your brand would represent.
Now coming back to @Wesbeats question.
First of all, as a producer you shouldn't be focusing on the question related to founding your company. As a producer you should focus on the question "How do I make my brand powerful?" or "How do I create a brand?". I've been working at a startup company for a few months now and I've had a chance to learn a thing or two about branding by observing their marketing moves and stuff. The advice below are also a reflection on my journey with Memento Beats which was unsuccessful, though I learned quite a lot of stuff from it about how to promote oneself and how to approach music in general.
When it comes to being a producer it's about building your personal brand and it's slightly different than building a company's brand.
1. Your personal brand (your producer brand) should be cohesive with you.
What I mean by this is for example when it comes to music, if you're good at making let's say synthwave, don't try to jump into trap just because it's popular. It's a very dangerous thing that I learned the hard way. It may seem like a good marketing move at first. Everybody's making trap and type beats so why shouldn't I do it too? But by doing this you risk getting lost in the avalanche of new wannabe producers who think that by making trap they will become famous, rich etc. You're one of many people who do the same thing just because it's popular at the moment. It's like a gold rush. It's especially dangerous if you already started creating your synthwave brand and suddenly you start releasing trap under it because you want to be noticed by the mainstream. By doing this you lose integrity of your brand and lose your synthwave audience. It's good to experiment but not all experiments can be published under the same brand.
2. All parts of your brand should be integral with each other.
I'm referring to colors you use in your graphics, the design of them, the way you write your posts about let's say new releases on your social media, the mix of your tracks, their sound, your photos on your website. Everything needs to be well-thought and calculated. And again cohesive with you as a person.
3. You should put yourself out there.
Personal brand requires putting your face and yourself out there. I learned that people who for example record themselves while making music or record tutorials and stuff like that get far more views than those who don't do it (including myself). People like communicating with each other. We also like watching other people and listening to them. We're social creatures whether you like it or not so you should let people know you.
View attachment 6590 View attachment 6591
Bill Gates personal twitter account has 60.8M followers and his company's twitter account "only" 11.8M. You see where I'm getting? And when we're talking about putting yourself out there...
4. Network
And I'm not talking about bombarding people with your messages on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram (although unfortunately, this is also important) but also about meeting other people in person. Get involved in your local scene somehow. Go on the shows, meet another artists and not only ones that make similar music to yours. Enroll yourself on a music course. Participate in some choir rehearsals or learn how to play some instruments and go to jam sessions.
Personally, I know a lot of guys who have metal bands for example and I have very good relations with them and they helped me a lot in some cases. They helped me find cheaper studios, or cheaper instruments and stuff. Be kind to people, don't be arrogant and put your ego in your pocket. Be helpful to them. It's important because one of their friends or they themselves can know a guy, who knows a guy who knows another who does something that may help you promote your brand. You never know. It's a long process and also difficult one because it's hard to meet reliable people in the music industry. Most of them are wannabe stars and they think they're special when in fact they're not (and I'm speaking about my former self here
5. Prepare a big budget
And I mean a really big budget. Not only for vsts, hardware etc but for marketing. You have to put a lot of money into this so that people are aware of your existence. Actually, that's the very first step of creating any brand. Making people aware that someone like @Wesbeats exists and he makes dope quality music. And when we're speaking about the quality...
6. Know your target group.
Who are you talking to? Who are the people who listen to your music? Why are they listen to it? What do they like the most about it? You have to know all of these things to make stuff that is better prepared and targeted specifically to some group. It will create engagement and that's the most important thing you're responsible for when shaping your personal brand.
7. Be sure that the stuff you put online is of very good quality
I'm talking about graphics you use for your beats, photos of yourself and your music. Don't rush things and before you upload something be sure that you have like 5-10 beats in your pocket for your future releases that you will post for example during next weeks. Create a space for yourself so that you will not feel the tension that you HAVE to create something because it's time to upload a new beat to your website, YouTube channel, Beatstars etc. I experienced it myself. In 2020 I was posting two beats every week on my YouTube channel. You might think that two beats per week in terms of rap/trap may not be a lot, but trust me it was if I also had to link it with my personal life and job. It was very exhausting thing and it kinda led me to a burnout. So be sure to avoid this type of stuff. Have something up your sleeve.
8. Be patient and be aware about the reality of the music industry.
As I mentioned earlier, don't rush things. Plan things ahead, improve quality not only of your music but also you as a person. Expand your knowledge about branding. If you're the producer you have to be kinda a jack of all trades and know many things. Be also aware that the rich superstars people look up to are only 0.01% of the whole music industry. Most people who are really knowledgeable and skilled when it comes to music are either not known or just lead a normal life. I know people who are virtuosos when it comes to the technique and knowledge they have about their instruments. Some of them are guitarists, some of them are violonists and some are pianists. They are INCREDIBLE. And I mean it. Not good. They're excellent. Yet, they teach at music schools or universities when they make average or small amount of money. Sometimes they're hired to play some basic music at bands who are well known in my country. And that's it. If you make music for money, you're probably in the wrong place. I realised it two years ago and this is why I treat it as a hobby and something I do when I have purely free time. I don't have the will anymore to keep "grinding" as hard work in music does not always pay off. It's not only applicable to music but to every other industry out there. To succeed you also, if not mainly, need a stroke of luck.
Success as a phenomena is caused by many factors. Hard work is only one of them. Location where you live makes a huge difference as to whether you'll be successful or not. For example if Steve Jobs were born in Poland as Stefan Praca (it's the direct translation of his name to Polish), there would be no Apple. Or maybe there would be Apple but someone else would have created it or it would have been less known and prestigious. So be reasonable and approach it lightly. Treat music as a hobby or passion because by doing this you don't feel the pressure.
I wish you all the best in your future journey and I hope that some part of my post will be helpful to you.
Peace.
Really good advice.
Pretty much looks like the knowledge I know/advocate that's been fed to me first hand by head marketers at majors.
The most important and significant thing out of all of it right now; the personal element. The realness and genuinity of it all.
Find a way to do it that's true and congruent with you and who you are. This also extends to your brand, don't just make everything sparklyand shiny if you're not a sparkly and shiny person, maybe you're lofi and gritty. Find the right way to do it right.
But still, setting yourself up is a business is wise for the sake of if you end up getting sued or financial issues.
Fade
The Beat Strangler
Administrator
illest o.g.
@Memento Beats Well said.
Branding is complex but it's also something that takes time as well so the brand can build up. When you factor that in with someone selling beats, this is why I think a lot of beatmakers don't see results right away. It's a long game pretty much.
I've mentioned it numerous times over the years for beatmakers to just DO YOU. This is why I don't understand why anyone would want to do type beats unless it's strictly for money. That's fine, but I just look at beatmaking as expressing yourself and being creative. This is why it can get very boring very fast if everyone is doing the same style. Just look at the NBA and how boring it is now. Why? Everyone is playing the same way. No one stands out like they used to. For beatmaking, I agree that it's also about being really awesome at what you do. Maybe your beat sucks overall, but maybe you're really good at doing basslines. Or drums. Focus on that and perfect it.
Branding is complex but it's also something that takes time as well so the brand can build up. When you factor that in with someone selling beats, this is why I think a lot of beatmakers don't see results right away. It's a long game pretty much.
I've mentioned it numerous times over the years for beatmakers to just DO YOU. This is why I don't understand why anyone would want to do type beats unless it's strictly for money. That's fine, but I just look at beatmaking as expressing yourself and being creative. This is why it can get very boring very fast if everyone is doing the same style. Just look at the NBA and how boring it is now. Why? Everyone is playing the same way. No one stands out like they used to. For beatmaking, I agree that it's also about being really awesome at what you do. Maybe your beat sucks overall, but maybe you're really good at doing basslines. Or drums. Focus on that and perfect it.
Thank you bro for takin time to message all that. Really helpful. Nowadays I just be making music mainly as a hobby now and in my free time, but every now n then I still wonder from time to time what it would be like and feel like to make a living off my music. I think it’s only human in me to feel like that. At the end of day I think every one would wanna live off there music. Isn’t that the dream?Hi Illiens!
Long time no see I guess.
Yeah, but it wasn't because they didn't see or hear it was garbage (although this may have also happened). It was because KANYE made it and released it. At some level of popularity this kind of things are "approvable" by the audience and/or followers. It's about the power of the brand. Same thing would happen with Ozzy Osbourne, Miles Davis etc. They could literally record their farts and trust me there will be people who would buy it.
It applies to every industry. For example I would never buy a regular T-shirt from Balenciaga with just a writing "Balenciaga" on it for let's say $5000 because it's completely mental thing to me. And it's not about the budget. It's about the nonsense of buying a regular T-shirt for $5000. Yet, there will be people who would proudly wear this type of clothes and will buy them eagerly. Because of the brand.
It's the power of the brand. If "Memento Beats" released electronic garbage as you put it then no one would give a damn about it. It's because my brand is microscopic or even non-existent compared to Kanye's. But if I was in Kanye's position then I would be able to sell crap too. It would be possible for every person or company out there. You would be able to do it because of the level your brand would represent.
Now coming back to @Wesbeats question.
First of all, as a producer you shouldn't be focusing on the question related to founding your company. As a producer you should focus on the question "How do I make my brand powerful?" or "How do I create a brand?". I've been working at a startup company for a few months now and I've had a chance to learn a thing or two about branding by observing their marketing moves and stuff. The advice below are also a reflection on my journey with Memento Beats which was unsuccessful, though I learned quite a lot of stuff from it about how to promote oneself and how to approach music in general.
When it comes to being a producer it's about building your personal brand and it's slightly different than building a company's brand.
1. Your personal brand (your producer brand) should be cohesive with you.
What I mean by this is for example when it comes to music, if you're good at making let's say synthwave, don't try to jump into trap just because it's popular. It's a very dangerous thing that I learned the hard way. It may seem like a good marketing move at first. Everybody's making trap and type beats so why shouldn't I do it too? But by doing this you risk getting lost in the avalanche of new wannabe producers who think that by making trap they will become famous, rich etc. You're one of many people who do the same thing just because it's popular at the moment. It's like a gold rush. It's especially dangerous if you already started creating your synthwave brand and suddenly you start releasing trap under it because you want to be noticed by the mainstream. By doing this you lose integrity of your brand and lose your synthwave audience. It's good to experiment but not all experiments can be published under the same brand.
2. All parts of your brand should be integral with each other.
I'm referring to colors you use in your graphics, the design of them, the way you write your posts about let's say new releases on your social media, the mix of your tracks, their sound, your photos on your website. Everything needs to be well-thought and calculated. And again cohesive with you as a person.
3. You should put yourself out there.
Personal brand requires putting your face and yourself out there. I learned that people who for example record themselves while making music or record tutorials and stuff like that get far more views than those who don't do it (including myself). People like communicating with each other. We also like watching other people and listening to them. We're social creatures whether you like it or not so you should let people know you.
View attachment 6590 View attachment 6591
Bill Gates personal twitter account has 60.8M followers and his company's twitter account "only" 11.8M. You see where I'm getting? And when we're talking about putting yourself out there...
4. Network
And I'm not talking about bombarding people with your messages on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram (although unfortunately, this is also important) but also about meeting other people in person. Get involved in your local scene somehow. Go on the shows, meet another artists and not only ones that make similar music to yours. Enroll yourself on a music course. Participate in some choir rehearsals or learn how to play some instruments and go to jam sessions.
Personally, I know a lot of guys who have metal bands for example and I have very good relations with them and they helped me a lot in some cases. They helped me find cheaper studios, or cheaper instruments and stuff. Be kind to people, don't be arrogant and put your ego in your pocket. Be helpful to them. It's important because one of their friends or they themselves can know a guy, who knows a guy who knows another who does something that may help you promote your brand. You never know. It's a long process and also difficult one because it's hard to meet reliable people in the music industry. Most of them are wannabe stars and they think they're special when in fact they're not (and I'm speaking about my former self here
5. Prepare a big budget
And I mean a really big budget. Not only for vsts, hardware etc but for marketing. You have to put a lot of money into this so that people are aware of your existence. Actually, that's the very first step of creating any brand. Making people aware that someone like @Wesbeats exists and he makes dope quality music. And when we're speaking about the quality...
6. Know your target group.
Who are you talking to? Who are the people who listen to your music? Why are they listen to it? What do they like the most about it? You have to know all of these things to make stuff that is better prepared and targeted specifically to some group. It will create engagement and that's the most important thing you're responsible for when shaping your personal brand.
7. Be sure that the stuff you put online is of very good quality
I'm talking about graphics you use for your beats, photos of yourself and your music. Don't rush things and before you upload something be sure that you have like 5-10 beats in your pocket for your future releases that you will post for example during next weeks. Create a space for yourself so that you will not feel the tension that you HAVE to create something because it's time to upload a new beat to your website, YouTube channel, Beatstars etc. I experienced it myself. In 2020 I was posting two beats every week on my YouTube channel. You might think that two beats per week in terms of rap/trap may not be a lot, but trust me it was if I also had to link it with my personal life and job. It was very exhausting thing and it kinda led me to a burnout. So be sure to avoid this type of stuff. Have something up your sleeve.
8. Be patient and be aware about the reality of the music industry.
As I mentioned earlier, don't rush things. Plan things ahead, improve quality not only of your music but also you as a person. Expand your knowledge about branding. If you're the producer you have to be kinda a jack of all trades and know many things. Be also aware that the rich superstars people look up to are only 0.01% of the whole music industry. Most people who are really knowledgeable and skilled when it comes to music are either not known or just lead a normal life. I know people who are virtuosos when it comes to the technique and knowledge they have about their instruments. Some of them are guitarists, some of them are violonists and some are pianists. They are INCREDIBLE. And I mean it. Not good. They're excellent. Yet, they teach at music schools or universities when they make average or small amount of money. Sometimes they're hired to play some basic music at bands who are well known in my country. And that's it. If you make music for money, you're probably in the wrong place. I realised it two years ago and this is why I treat it as a hobby and something I do when I have purely free time. I don't have the will anymore to keep "grinding" as hard work in music does not always pay off. It's not only applicable to music but to every other industry out there. To succeed you also, if not mainly, need a stroke of luck.
Success as a phenomena is caused by many factors. Hard work is only one of them. Location where you live makes a huge difference as to whether you'll be successful or not. For example if Steve Jobs were born in Poland as Stefan Praca (it's the direct translation of his name to Polish), there would be no Apple. Or maybe there would be Apple but someone else would have created it or it would have been less known and prestigious. So be reasonable and approach it lightly. Treat music as a hobby or passion because by doing this you don't feel the pressure.
I wish you all the best in your future journey and I hope that some part of my post will be helpful to you.
Peace.
Ppl on YouTube be selling hopes and dreams .. just gotta buckle down and create my own out of this world new sound that ain’t nobody heard before?
The money would be cool an all, but seeing a track that had been released say prod by wesbeats
Would be fuckin cool lol
Branding is important I see .
I’ve sold 1 single beat before for 100bucks lol
It’s possible I think when it comes back to branding and who you are as a person. If they fuck with you and your sound they’ll spend that money with you.
Is it bad to give beats for free at the start or does that value in your beats go down by doin that?
Thanks
OGBama
Big Clit Energy
Long time @Memento Beats so props to you chiming in!
@Wesbeats ask @Dj Iceman re: branding and he does masterclasses.
@Wesbeats ask @Dj Iceman re: branding and he does masterclasses.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Cute that you think radio royalties were some gold standard. Half the time the artist didn't get paid for that either. https://soundcharts.com/blog/radio-royalties and many times radio rates are WORSE then streaming rates. As a person with music on both, I get the reports...sometimes. and see https://music3point0.com/2018/06/15/radio-airplay-royaties/ The reality is that its a rough gig as an artist. You need to tour (and that's tough to make profitable) sell merchandise, hope to get sync deals etc.
Think of it like this... producers charge for beats. But rappers charge for vocals.
So why you charging, and who's charging?
Then it's like... what are selling your beat to some shit rapper? If so, why? You want some really horrible dog shit record out there with your name on it?
Are you looking for someone who will buy your beat? Or are you looking for someone you'd love to have on your record?
I personally feel like only one of those options are the smart route. There's always exceptions of course, but.
Example, you get the chance to work with Method Man, or some rapper you really dig, are you gonna say "oh wait, first you must pay me $200 for the beat?"
I'm not talking about radio now im talking about radio then and specific stations.
Back when radio first came out, people resisted it 'cause it didn't pay much. But then it eventually did. I said streaming could follow suit, but i doubt it will as anyone can just be streamed.
Fade
The Beat Strangler
Administrator
illest o.g.
This is a really good thread though. It shows how much the industry has changed and it's not necessarily for the better.
For anyone that makes beats and wants to break into the industry, it's almost luck at this point, which is a real shame.
I used to hear the term "dime a dozen" when it came to web developers, now that applies to beatmakers.
For anyone that makes beats and wants to break into the industry, it's almost luck at this point, which is a real shame.
I used to hear the term "dime a dozen" when it came to web developers, now that applies to beatmakers.
- BBC Radio 1: £13.63 per minute
- BBC Radio 2: £24.27 per minute
- BBC 6 Music: £5.25 per minute
How to make sure you receive the radio royalties you're owed — Prescription Music PR
With touring so expensive and streaming royalties so low, it’s become harder than ever to make money out of music. One area where it is still possible to generate decent revenue however is through getting radio airplay; but often, bands concentrate so hard on getting this airplay that they forget to
www.prescriptionmusicpruk.com
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Those are very specific, unusual and frankly dubious numbers. they kinda found them on a blog? one of their sources requires a login and one is a bad link. So we can’t fact check. Every Taylor swift doesn’t get those kinds of numbers for her songs. Not even close. Even this one claims it’s about 0.005 per song. https://questionsfishing.com/qa/how-much-do-radio-stations-pay-in-royalties.html that link you provided seems like it was written by a content farm and not someone with any real experience. Usually the stations pay an annual fee to the PRO (my PRO is ASCAP) organizations and the money gets divided by the top artists. It’s way more sloppy than you think. there is also a difference in payment based on genre, based on if you are the publisher, or songwriter or whatever. And per minute pricing is usually based on stock music (of which I have sold a lot and get regular royalty payments on) not an actual song played as an artists and usually that’s a one time payment. So maybe this data is factual but im gonna need some actual sources to believe it. And I’m a very unknown artist, so maybe it’s different for a better known artist, but I have had my music on the radio in the US, UK, china, actually I get the most plays in Ukraine interestingly enough. And I have never even remotely seen numbers that high personally. The reality is that music licensing is changing constantly and takes a lawyer to navigate.
- BBC Radio 1: £13.63 per minute
- BBC Radio 2: £24.27 per minute
- BBC 6 Music: £5.25 per minute
How to make sure you receive the radio royalties you're owed — Prescription Music PR
With touring so expensive and streaming royalties so low, it’s become harder than ever to make money out of music. One area where it is still possible to generate decent revenue however is through getting radio airplay; but often, bands concentrate so hard on getting this airplay that they forget to
Nah I've had reputable sources tell me very similar numbers in the past. They're the highest paying radio stations in that territory.
Other stations pay a lot less, but those I'd been told by many reputable people. Singers from successful bands, radio producers who work at that station, pluggers, people who work at the royalty collection agencies, publishers.
Was told to me about 10 years ago so no idea how the numbers have changed or not since then.
