im really curious

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eDub24

Guest
how many of you can say that if you had no job, only your equipment, could you make a living off of producing music? or how many of you already do make beats as a full time job?

idk to me its like sports. in high school alot of people are like yeah ima go on and play professional football, but a very small percentage actually do. i could be wrong about it but it really does seem like that. idk i think ive been thinking about it too much but cant help but wonder.

anyways theres some new free drum samples in the free drum samples thread! that thread needs to stay alive why not share!
 

Agent Smith

IllMuzik Junkie
ill o.g.
alchemist said something to the effect of : don't make producing your life until you can afford to. i basically take that to mean keep on the grind but don't quit your day job...keep plan b on ice so you can have the cash to produce comfortably. if its meant to happen its meant to happen...if its not, its no loss to you. im sure no bedroom producer looked back on his life like "man i wish i didn't do what i was passionate about".
 

Ominous

OminousRed.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
how many of you can say that if you had no job, only your equipment, could you make a living off of producing music? or how many of you already do make beats as a full time job?

I don't have a job. I have some equipment. And I pray to God I can make a living doing this. But it wont be making beats. More like making whole songs and albums. Artwork. I have a lot of people say to me, you should sell your paintings. But people ain't going to cough up a couple of hundred for a painting as fast as they would spend 10 bucks for a CD or album download.

I used to use the same analogy you use but I use basketball instead.

Anyone can buy some Jordans and a basketball and walk to a basketball court and start playing. And anyone can buy an MPC, or FL Studio and start uploading MP3s. But that doesn't mean you are going to make it to the NBA. That doesn't mean you are going to be the next Polow Tha Don or Kanye West.

But I think a better analogy is an Industry.

Since this is the "Hip Hop Industry" you can look at it like the food industry. You have restaurants that fold in about 3 months because they have crappy food. But then you have small unique hole in the wall restaurants that are successful. And then you have McDonald's.

I dunno. I'll find out by the end of this August what is really good. I'm either gonna keep going, or get a different job.
 
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Griffin Avid

Guest
Good question with a complicated answer.

1) If you took a way my job(s) and said I could ONLY make money off music I would have to make some changes, both with my direction and how I approach the Business side of music.

2) Just like sports, Michael Jordan was not a pro until he turned pro. Same with production, until you decide to quit that day job...

3) Just having gear and talent isn't enough. having 100 great beats isn't enough. So much is pure business (relationships).

The only thing I don't undertsand from most people (and producers/rappers/artists...) is why they focus so hard on One thing to get Another. When you ask them WHY they want these success points it's always for something else.

I want to sell beats so I can....

And a lot of those goals can be realized without selling beats.
 

Ominous

OminousRed.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
I like the restaurant analogy alot, makes sense.

Another one I like to use is the auto industry.

They all build cars. They all want to build the best car, but the question is, "What is the BEST?"

Some people would say the best car is the one that sells the most. And some people would say the best car is the one that gives you the best performance. Jay Z is like a Honda. Or any major selling artist is like a Honda. You can find them anywhere and everyone buys them because they are a proven product. Part of their success is anyone can appreciate that kind of vehicle. Almost anyone can listen to Jay Z. And Aesop Rock is like a exotic car. Not everyone can hang with that kind of vehicle. Some of them have no radio in it. No cup holders. No air conditioning. Hard to even get into. Hard to look at. But what happens is, some cars can do shit no other car can do... and that is why you appreciate it.

Cars are good metaphors for emcees. They are going to take you for a ride. Where are they going to take you? The hood? The club? The strip? The country? Straight up battle on a drag strip, head to head against another car? How fun is the ride going to be and how long will it last?
 
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Griffin Avid

Guest
Seeing that the rap/hip hop analogy thing has been done to death..

Rap game = drug game/sports/ colors/chicks/movies/clothing etc

At least keep it parts to a whole.

Labels = restaurants and rappers = food

Labels = car manuf. and rappers = car models.

Usually analogies make complex concepts more easier to understand.

Do you need an analogy to say some small labels are okay and some big ones are in trouble.
some rappers appeal to many and some only to a few?
 

Ominous

OminousRed.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
Seeing that the rap/hip hop analogy thing has been done to death...

Hip Hop reflects life a little more directly than most other genres of music in my opinion. So this analogy thing will never die. Ever rap song has some sort of metaphor or analogy in it. So Hip Hop will continuously reflect life so it will never die and the "analogy thing" probably wont die any time soon.

Labels = restaurants and rappers = food

Labels = car manuf. and rappers = car models.

Rappers are the restaurants and their food is their music that other people will buy keeping their business going. Are they small independent establishments or huge commercial chains? Rappers are car manufacturers and their cars represent the purpose of their work. They rap to make money. Or they rap to breath soul into the art form. For the pride of creation.

Usually analogies make complex concepts more easier to understand. Do you need an analogy to say some small labels are okay and some big ones are in trouble. Some rappers appeal to many and some only to a few?

Or analogies can flesh out simple concepts and give them more depth. So no, I don't need an analogy to make something simple more complex. But I do need an analogy to answer eDUB24's question. Yes... anyone can make money off of their work if they approach it like how other industries do. The analogy was to help you understand how people can make this a career by comparing it to other industries.

And I'll use an analogy to answer your question.

The only thing I don't undertsand from most people (and producers/rappers/artists...) is why they focus so hard on One thing to get Another. When you ask them WHY they want these success points it's always for something else.

I want to sell beats so I can....

And a lot of those goals can be realized without selling beats.

This is what made me even address you. You're new here so I wasn't going to say shit but you are calling me out on what I believe in so I'll give you five minutes. You are in a forum... where everyone here aspires to make a living doing what they love, making music. Making beats.

What I find funny, is you ask "Do we need complicated analogies to understand simple ideas?" But you were the one who doesn't understand why people say I want to sell beats so I can....

If you can't understand that, why are you here at iLLmuzik?

So I figure you need an analogy more than anyone else. But don't get me wrong. I feel what you are saying. Why do people turn to selling beats to find success when you can do a lot of other, "better" things to reach it. You can be a nurse making 30 bux an hour doing what you love, helping people. Or you can be a mechanic making 60 bux an hour doing what you love, working on cars. You can be a barber making up to 45 bux an hour, making great money doing something that comes easy to you. Or you can make X amount of dollars making beats, something you can do all day everyday...

Doing what you love to reach success...
 

mercurywaters

hip hop in the flesh
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 32
i had to examine this question for myself and this is the answer i came up with for me.

i had to basically look at why i was making music. if you're making music as a business to earn money, then you have to conduct yourself in that way. you make beats that people will want to pay money for. and make a lot of them. not necessarily the most artistic, but the most profitable. it would be great if those two things fell in line, but a lot of times they don't. take little drama boi for example. its no secret he wants to make it in the industry. he does what he has to do to get his beats to sound like they belong there. he's not worried about pushing the limits of what hip hop can be, or bringing a message to the world. he makes hot tracks that are going to sell.

i personally made the choice to give up trying to earn a living making music. the music i want to make isn't suited for that. it doesn't fit into the mold of what sells millions of units. i either had to change what i was making or change my goal. so i changed my goal. i've made a lot better music since making that choice and feel like i'm going in the right direction.

so i guess my point is, if you want to make a living doing this, then act like it. get on the bandwagon. make a product that will sell and sell that bitch to anyone that will buy. all those producers who make big money (just blaze, neptunes, timbo, dre) have found their formula and they stick to it. just like mcdonalds, toyota, and microsoft do.
 
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Griffin Avid

Guest
You're new here so I wasn't going to say shit but ...

New on this forum, but not to music/production. don't get it twisted because of a low post count. Aint no one calling you out either. I diagree with you and I think that's allowed on a forum- even one that I'm new to.

If you can't understand that, why are you here at iLLmuzik?

So being on a forum is for what? Know-it-alls? Maybe you join for every reason a forum exists for -- sharing resources and ideas. maybe even to cause change by talking to others with differing views. I say what I think, you do the same. If I like what yoiu're saying maybe I change my mind and think more like...you. It's actually possible and does happen.

Or you can make X amount of dollars making beats, something you can do all day everyday...
Doing what you love to reach success...


So maybe it was you that didn't understand.
How many people here ENJOY selling beats?

Maybe that was too obtuse?
How many people ENJOY MAKING BEATS and hope to sell them....
At 20 to 30 USD dollars a track, you're not fooling anyone. With the passion of doing folk music (hip hop is folk music) you're not cashing in anytime soon.

You spend 40 hrs a week working somewhere and consider music production your real fantasy job. Doing beats all day.... and making enough bread....to make beats all day. maybe you want to run a business that gives you the time to be home all day making beats without worrying about your bills. But that would be thinking outside the box.
 

Ominous

OminousRed.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
You ain't making sense to me....

So I'll start with saying no... I guess I don't understand what you are trying to say.

New on this forum, but not to music/production. don't get it twisted because of a low post count. Aint no one calling you out either. I diagree with you...

What the hell are you disagreeing about exactly? You ain't new to music and production but then you don't understand why people want to make beats and use it as a way to reach success? I am dropping analogies left and right but you didn't call me out when you started slamming analogies? Whatever bro... you're talking sideways.


So being on a forum is for what? Know-it-alls? Maybe you join for every reason a forum exists for -- sharing resources and ideas. maybe even to cause change by talking to others with differing views. I say what I think, you do the same. If I like what yoiu're saying maybe I change my mind and think more like...you. It's actually possible and does happen.

I ain't a Know-it-all. But I know what I know because of what my eyes have seen. And I know a guy who worked at the same office I did, put me on to using my computer to make music. And we didn't have a dollar but we did have a dream. And he was sitting in a bedroom or home office like the rest of us, making music like the rest of us, he got major placement and is making a living making music now.

http://robknife.com/

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=284018977&s=143441

You guys make it seem like making music for a living is a pipe dream. Or like Merc put it, if you don't sell out or make heart felt music bent on changing the world you can't find success. I am not only disagreeing, I am saying the facts show otherwise. If that were true, then people like Aesop Rock, Blockhead and Musiq wouldn't exist.

At 20 to 30 USD dollars a track, you're not fooling anyone. With the passion of doing folk music (hip hop is folk music) you're not cashing in anytime soon.

WHAT? Fooling anyone? Who is trying to fool anyone? We got cats in here that just got off tour. Dudes working in studios. Emcees about to drop albums. You don't know what kind of cake people are getting in here. And how do you know people ain't about to come up on this grind?

But that would be thinking outside the box.

How are you thinking outside the box when this is how people are operating as we speak. 99% of the cats in here have jobs outside of hip hop. I worked in an office for 10 years and saved up money to decide to change professions to make money from selling my music. And you are basically saying I am going to fail at it?

I ain't got no beef with no one here. All I am saying is, see me in 2009 and if I ain't having any kind of success at this rap game without selling out and making mindless soulless "industry" music like Merc says you have to do to find success, email me and I will send you a photo of me chewing on CDs I couldn't sell literally eating my own words...
 
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Griffin Avid

Guest
You guys make it seem like making music for a living is a pipe dream.

Firstly, what group have I been placed in as YOU GUYS?

any kind of success at this rap game without selling out and making mindless soulless "industry" music

Where did I suggest this as the only way? If fact what I am saying is the opposite.
 

mercurywaters

hip hop in the flesh
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 32
i didn't say it was impossible to make a living making music that pushes the limits, its just not the norm. and aesop rock and blockhead are struggling like us. don't get it twisted. they work 9 to 5's when they have to. and musiq makes commercial music. he's not really thinking outside the box. its basic r and b nowadays. i mean, TLC can go platinum and go bankrupt. so the commercial route isn't the key to success. i think the key to success is knowing how to run a business and wanting to run a business. if you wan to quit your day job, treat your music making like its a business. supply a product to those that need it.
 
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Griffin Avid

Guest
i think the key to success is knowing how to run a business and wanting to run a business. if you wan to quit your day job, treat your music making like its a business. supply a product to those that need it.


And I said:
maybe you want to run a business that gives you the time to be home all day making beats without worrying about your bills. But that would be thinking outside the box.

I like that. In a somewhat related note, lots of cats can't see anyone else unlike themselves being involved in music for honest reasons. And to be honest I don't know what honest reasons are. Some producers actually enjoy rap-club music. Just because I make something 'bangin' doesn't mean I'm a corrupt SOB. Just because I make premier type beats...

Somewhere Someone is doing something purely for money...
Signing with a sports team...
Getting married...
religion....
politics....
Having a kid...
Switching jobs...
Killing...


With all thses other motivations I don't understand, whoops, let me not say I don't understand. Someone might get hung up on that phrase. um.. It doesn't make sense...no, let me not say that either. Hold on....



I don't agree with artists/musicians that have a single 'okay' reason to make a piece of music.
The moment you decide to sell it, you're in business.
The fact that you like what you sell and every product is some kind of work of art to you doesn't change that.
 

Sincock

Fucking Wankers
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 8
Honestly, Griffin, I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say. You're all over the place; no wonder if dudes misinterpret you.
 
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Griffin Avid

Guest
maybe I should have used an Analogy.

And you do have some very clear quotes as your signature.

And with a name like Sin Cock ...
 
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