Fight #338: BAS Beats vs. K-waz
[Fight Ends: 3 days, 2 hours left]
Beat This! Beat This! Competition - June 11-12, 2025
- Thread starter Fade
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WarzoneThe next Warzone Beat Battle is set for June 17-21st!
Overall, @2GooD Productions @Iron Keys and @Armani in the top places of a Dre theme...
The world makes sense.
The world makes sense.
Thanks for the feedback bro. After hearing some of the tracks by you guys I realised that maybe I should have listened to some reference tracks before making my beat. I made it purely from memory. I agree that the musicality wasn't quite right, realised this more so after hearing some of the other tracks in the battle, could have used better sounds, had a bit more note variation in my chord stabs, luckily, what I did just happened to be enough to grab a win. I actually deliberately tamed my usual loud snappy in your face snares, because I thought from memory that Dre's were a bit tamer and NOT so in your face. Musically it was a bit more of my own style rather than Dre's. A lesson learned from this battle, listen to reference tracks(I never fucking do, even when mixing) never have, but really should, especially when making a type beat, and when mixing too. One day I will get around to using them.
The funny thing was I thought "aren't 2G's snares usually a bit snappier anyway?" So I felt like the mix/snare choice was like a conscious one, ironically it was.
Yeah re Dre mixes... apparently my mixes are naturally a bit that way, I've hit engineers with non dre style beats, and they're like 'this sounds very 2001' or 'very Dre', just based on the mix itself.
Which, makes sense seeing as my formative years I was literally obsessed with Dre productions. It was also what I self-taught myself on. But even when you've left it behind, it's still there. I think my mixes are evolving beyond that now, but likely there will be similarities, especially if I prod the beat.
Yeah I'm a sucker for not doing so too... I did it a few times when I upgraded my monitoring, and I think that helped me understand how my monitoring should sound or how my mix should sound, so since then I often just be going straight at it, as I know what I'm expecting to hear during my cross referencing --- one of the pros who mentor me advises he doesn't reference, I've watched him mix live many times, does not reference at all. I think you only really need to 'get used to your monitors' and maybe if you was mixing a genre you don't usually make. I think it's more about understanding your monitors, once you do that the mix should be to taste. 'cause your mix, is your taste. I guess only if someone said 'can you mix it like this record' then you need the reference at that point.
Exactly this. 100% only time I've used reference tracks, just to get an understanding of how my monitors "should" sound.
I think it also might be due to how advanced/experienced we are now - I think that referencing back when I was shit probably would have helped a lot more hahah
'cause take for example some guys here, I feel like if they just bumped a record next to theres when mixing, they'd be like 'shit, my kick is 10dB too loud and my piano is 20dB too quiet.
For others, I think it may just be a case of them doing too much to their mix without needing to. (those who have balances fairly right, but too much processing) --- I barely process my stuff much now. Unless the record is asking me to do something. Othertimes I might but that's like if im like 'lemme see what i can bring out of this', but it's all very intentional.
I agree completely, I use far fewer mixing plugins now, I have replaced most compression with soft/hard clipping and saturation to get the same results. Other mixing plugins I use for very specific reasons, like Submarine or R-Bass to get better deep lows, or MV2 to even out a dynamic bass guitar or dynamic vocals. Using clipping adds more distortion than compression, but I think overall it adds to the grit of authentic hip hop and helps in getting that oldschool dirty sound. As a result my mixing is so much more streamlined, doesn't take forever, and I get much better results, especially when trying to get a loud mix. I can push up to -7db LUFS integrated without over-compression, with a little audible distortion mainly on the kick, but at a degree I can live with.
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I do love a bit of crunch.
Only place I don't accept it on is my ... strings, piano, vocals. (unless intentional buzz on vocal).
Yeah, compression for me is a very specific intention now. I'm using it more for controlling depth/rhythm. Which is some real subtle shit, which, I'm still learning this aspect of. But the outcome is fucking ridic. Changes shit from flat and dead to 3D and alive.
Alternatively used to help bring something (typically a vocal) slightly more 'forward' in a mix.
Yeah same here, clipping on a vocal often doesn't sound very good so I still use compression on a vocal, as well as chopping the wav up and manually adjusting volume levels if parts are a bit too low in volume. If chopping the wav up causes pops and clicks I will automate the volume instead to prevent the pops and clicks. When clipping doesn't sound very good I will fall back to compression, I will also use compression if I intentionally want a bit of pump or glue, to say a drum bus, or even on the final master bus, that can be a little genre specific too. I have found that saturation does a great job of bringing a vocal more forward in the mix. It also does wonders in getting a bassline to translate on smaller speakers and getting a loud mix by applying to many different instrument tracks. I dont use saturation much on the master bus as usually I have already done it on individual channels or groups as a send. My sends usually consist of a reverb(sometimes 2, one room for drums and one hall for instruments), a delay or two and a saturation. Sometimes an R-Bass and/or a Submarine to enhance sub sonics on kicks and basses.
Pretty similar to what I be doing. I get to my master bus now and get upset that I don't need to put my saturation on it... 'cause I've usually achieved that all in the mix now. But I do miss slapping my tape/tubes etc and all this clevel mid/side shit and whatever the fuck else I used to do. 'Cause now I've got all my depth, tone, shape etc from the mix. Other than a subtle 2bus compression, it's practically just loudness --- and even that I've dropped a plugin from my loudness chain. Might bring it back in potentially could squeeze 1-2 more lufs out maybe.
@Iron Keys often times my master bus is already pushing -6db LUFS integrated before I have done anything to it so have to bring the gain down a little before any final clipping/compression or limiting to get my final result. Many times I don't even need to use a limiter at all, but just use it for finalising and dithering the final wav. I use the L2 Maximiser for that, its the only limiter I use on the master bus ever. Might use an L1 on the drum bus on the very rare occasion just to keep things interesting lol
You hit your 2bus hot like me then ha.
Yeah, often my master meter is hitting +5dB, I check the lufs, it's like close to where i want it, just gotta put on my master clipper/whatever, which sometimes introduces a bit of nasties, but then you can usually do some subtle adjustments or drop a little bit of loudness.
I think, and likely in your case too, that now we probably just naturally making better production and mix choices that mean that loudness is more attainable. Though some records will still have their own limitations.
exactly, only time I will drop the L1 on the drum bus is if the clipping is too distorted. My master bus chain is dynamic EQ(decisions guided by the Izotope Tonal Control 2), then standardclip which I use for gain control and final clipping before going into the final limiter which is the L2 Ultramaximiser. On a rare occasion I may add a Kramer Tape saturation in before the clipper or after it, depending on my mood for a little of that oldschool tape saturation/distortion. Very recently started using Quadrafuzz( a stock cubase plugin) to get that distortion/saturation on my low end, after seeing a recent video about it, it works really well on kicks and basses, but I dont use that on the master bus, only on individual channels.
Thanks @Iron Keys
I had a feeling most people would go for that 2001 sound so I wanted to try going old school.
This is probably the most “research” I’ve done for a beat in a while. Between listening to The Chronic on repeat and watching a few videos; there were a few things I was able to pick out. It helps The making of The Chronic has also been pretty well documented. There were a few things I already knew going in.
Drums: vibe, we all know Dre’s drum patterns are “simple.” That being said, there was a bit more groove back then. A simple pattern with a little swing was really all I needed. For reference, my boom-bap feel stuff has the swing up to 30%. This was only about 15%. It’s an 808 with a narrow ADSR envelope for “meat and body” layered on a vinyl sampled kick for a bit of “punch and grit.” Anthony Marinelli also mentioned in a video that the whole album was tracked to tape, so all channels would’ve been mono (which my drums usually are) with a some tape saturation. Lastly, there’s a light (but simple) HP filtered breakbeat layered on top. This is mostly for texture and was something fairly common at the time.
Bass: thankfully there’s a generic “Snoop” bass patch on Massive that I thought of right away. It’s a simple square wave bass, slightly detuned for size and pushed a bit for grit. Knowing G Funk sampled/was inspired by old Funk, it’s a REALLY simple bass line leaning heavily on chord tones. 1, 5, and 7. Essentially just jamming the pentatonic scale. The “groove” all comes from articulation and a combination of short and long notes. I also recorded some pops and slides and layered them for more “funk” - again just playing with articulations.
Mix: Drums in mono, bass guitar in mono, bass synth in stereo (for that wide feel). In fact the synth has a little dimension expander on it. Kicks were sitting around 50-60Hz and I carved everything in the bass bus out under 80hz. Again just to make space. One thing I did differently was having NO comp on my main drum bus. Instead I used just a bit of NYC for punch.
Ultimately; I paid more attention to tone and texture. Sampling records and using drum machines from that time really helped. I also used the SoundGhost Texturize plugin for some tape hiss/aliasing. Again, more to mimic the sound of the time rather than to get a lofi sound. Dre has always been known for trying to get clean, hi-fidelity and pristine soundings mixes.
I had a feeling most people would go for that 2001 sound so I wanted to try going old school.
This is probably the most “research” I’ve done for a beat in a while. Between listening to The Chronic on repeat and watching a few videos; there were a few things I was able to pick out. It helps The making of The Chronic has also been pretty well documented. There were a few things I already knew going in.
Drums: vibe, we all know Dre’s drum patterns are “simple.” That being said, there was a bit more groove back then. A simple pattern with a little swing was really all I needed. For reference, my boom-bap feel stuff has the swing up to 30%. This was only about 15%. It’s an 808 with a narrow ADSR envelope for “meat and body” layered on a vinyl sampled kick for a bit of “punch and grit.” Anthony Marinelli also mentioned in a video that the whole album was tracked to tape, so all channels would’ve been mono (which my drums usually are) with a some tape saturation. Lastly, there’s a light (but simple) HP filtered breakbeat layered on top. This is mostly for texture and was something fairly common at the time.
Bass: thankfully there’s a generic “Snoop” bass patch on Massive that I thought of right away. It’s a simple square wave bass, slightly detuned for size and pushed a bit for grit. Knowing G Funk sampled/was inspired by old Funk, it’s a REALLY simple bass line leaning heavily on chord tones. 1, 5, and 7. Essentially just jamming the pentatonic scale. The “groove” all comes from articulation and a combination of short and long notes. I also recorded some pops and slides and layered them for more “funk” - again just playing with articulations.
Mix: Drums in mono, bass guitar in mono, bass synth in stereo (for that wide feel). In fact the synth has a little dimension expander on it. Kicks were sitting around 50-60Hz and I carved everything in the bass bus out under 80hz. Again just to make space. One thing I did differently was having NO comp on my main drum bus. Instead I used just a bit of NYC for punch.
Ultimately; I paid more attention to tone and texture. Sampling records and using drum machines from that time really helped. I also used the SoundGhost Texturize plugin for some tape hiss/aliasing. Again, more to mimic the sound of the time rather than to get a lofi sound. Dre has always been known for trying to get clean, hi-fidelity and pristine soundings mixes.
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Fucking expert.
This is where I really think you nailed it - the decision to approach your mix etc from this perspective, is why your record really shone.
Everything you detailed before this, ultimately arrives at/from that specific decision.
Big.
I used to always have my swing set at 33%, but over time and mainly due to inspiration from @DJ Excellence and his understanding of the Premo sound I have started pushing my swing as far up as between 66-90% on many occasions more recently.
and yeah, like @Iron Keys said, thats some expert level shit right there, way beyond anything I have ever done
Appreciate you!
I was fortunate to grow up in a house that always had funk and disco playing (courtesy of my mum) so I wasn’t to concerned about the “notes” or instrumentation (phased Epiano, funky guitars, organ and bass).
The decision to go old school, was more of a personal challenge, and well, I wanted to push my mixing capabilities a bit.
I was fortunate to grow up in a house that always had funk and disco playing (courtesy of my mum) so I wasn’t to concerned about the “notes” or instrumentation (phased Epiano, funky guitars, organ and bass).
The decision to go old school, was more of a personal challenge, and well, I wanted to push my mixing capabilities a bit.
I will for certain elements. Like, if I want that swing jazz ride cymbal feel.
Speaking of, something else I’ve grown out of is having a “global” swing level.
Having different groups or instruments around a similar swing % can yield some cool result and add a more humanized feel. It’s a delicate balance because you can easily end up with an incoherent mess.