Again in favour of sampling

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attila

ILLIEN
Battle Points: 57
Marcel Duchamp revolutionized the concept of art with his idea of ready-made, which implies that an already existing object (sample) can be considered art simply by being selected and presented as such. That is much more radical than sampling, but right.

The ready-made is an object that the artist chooses and presents as a work of art. No need to do more than point at it. Duchamp argued that the act of selecting an object and giving it a new context is sufficient to transform it into art, he was talking about ordinary object, I say this can be said for ordinary or extraordinary samples too. This approach challenges traditional conventions, where art is seen as something created from scratch.

Duchamp shifted the focus from the physical object to the idea behind the work. His statement that "art is what the artist decides to call art" implies that the meaning and value of a work of art do not reside solely in its aesthetics but also in the context and intention of the artist. Well said, Marcel.

With the ready-made, Duchamp also questioned the role of the artist. It is no longer necessary to be a skilled craftsman, no, the artist becomes a curator of ideas and meanings. That's the point. Not the skills. The idea.
In summary, according to Duchamp, taking an already existing object (sample) and presenting it as art is a creative act in itself, inviting deep reflection on what "art" truly means. This has paved the way for many contemporary artistic practices, where the idea and concept are more important than the object (sample) itself.
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN MBAPPÉ
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 808
Jokes aside, I don't necessarily think this is in favor of sampling --- although I see where the parallels are.

I feel like this would be more, uploading an audio recording of a gun shot echoing and proclaiming "THIS IS HIP-HOP!"

Though you could potentially argue that collage was likely used by Dada and is very akin to sampling.
 
"Things a lazy 'artist' would say"
Literally taking credit for somebody else's work because you pointed a finger at it and said look at this.
I'm quite a lazy sampler myself in general, but I still think you need to do something transformative to something to begin making it your own, even if its laying down lyrics upon it, or adding drums to it at the very least.
I'm not a fan of modern art practices like an unmade bed, or buckets of sand that fall over.
Even from a djing perspective, the art is in not only the song selection, but the way they are mixed together.
The art is in the transformation, not pointing a finger, IMO.
 

attila

ILLIEN
Battle Points: 57
"Things a lazy 'artist' would say"
Literally taking credit for somebody else's work because you pointed a finger at it and said look at this.
I'm quite a lazy sampler myself in general, but I still think you need to do something transformative to something to begin making it your own, even if its laying down lyrics upon it, or adding drums to it at the very least.
I'm not a fan of modern art practices like an unmade bed, or buckets of sand that fall over.
Even from a djing perspective, the art is in not only the song selection, but the way they are mixed together.
The art is in the transformation, not pointing a finger, IMO.
Transformstion? Agree, change the context. Duchamp was not Dada himself, but yes, he is the author of the Fountain, even if he didn't make It. Note that we remember Duchamp, that just put the toilet in a museum, but not the man who actually made the toilet.
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN MBAPPÉ
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 808
I think this just more relates to saying "something is Art because someone said it is" as opposed to sampling.

Appropriation is the practise that would more closely, if not directly, relate to sampling...

Art appropriation is the practice of artists incorporating pre-existing images or objects into their work, often with minimal alteration. This practice, which has been used throughout art history, raises questions about originality, authorship, and the nature of art itself. It's a concept that blurs the lines between inspiration, homage, and outright theft, sparking debate and legal challenges.
 

attila

ILLIEN
Battle Points: 57
I think this just more relates to saying "something is Art because someone said it is" as opposed to sampling.

Appropriation is the practise that would more closely, if not directly, relate to sampling...
Mmm... I think this perspective is related to business. Look: a flower could be beautiful, but it's not art until someone puts the flower in a frame. I mean, art is a mental process in the minds of people. So, it's art if someone says it is. It doesn't mean that it is good art; it just means that art is emotion and thought, not an object.
I came to this conclusion while listening to a song where the beat is a loop. There are not even drums, just the rapper. I don't care about appropriateness; I know that I love that track and I’ve listened to it a thousand times, while I’ve only heard the original once. The emotion is different, the contact, the feel, the idea Is different, even if the loop Is the same. Who choosed and looped that sample made his artistic decision and d I'm thankful to him (and to people that made the original.)

So my thought is: just create beautiful things. When it's time to enjoy it, that is the only thing that makes a difference in whether I listen to it or not.
 
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Mmm... I think this perspective is related to business. Look: a flower could be beautiful, but it's not art until someone puts the flower in a frame. I mean, art is a mental process in the minds of people. So, it's art if someone says it is. It doesn't mean that it is good art; it just means that art is emotion and thought, not an object.
I came to this conclusion while listening to a song where the beat is a loop. There are not even drums, just the rapper. I don't care about appropriateness; I know that I love that track and I’ve listened to it a thousand times, while I’ve only heard the original once. The emotion is different, the contact, the feel, the idea Is different, even if the loop Is the same. Who choosed and looped that sample made his artistic decision and d I'm thankful to him (and to people that made the original.)

So my thought is: just create beautiful things. When it's time to enjoy it, that is the only thing that makes a difference in whether I listen to it or not.
the transformation was the lyrics on top of it
 

attila

ILLIEN
Battle Points: 57
Mmm... I think this perspective is related to business. Look: a flower could be beautiful, but it's not art until someone puts the flower in a frame. I mean, art is a mental process in the minds of people. So, it's art if someone says it is. It doesn't mean that it is good art; it just means that art is emotion and thought, not an object.
I came to this conclusion while listening to a song where the beat is a loop. There are not even drums, just the rapper. I don't care about appropriateness; I know that I love that track and I’ve listened to it a thousand times, while I’ve only heard the original once. The emotion is different, the contact, the feel, the idea Is different, even if the loop Is the same. Who choosed and looped that sample made his artistic decision and d I'm thankful to him (and to people that made the original.)

So my thought is: just create beautiful things. When it's time to enjoy it, that is the only thing that makes a difference in whether I listen to it or not.
That said I thi I wanna be the founder of toilet hop genre
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN MBAPPÉ
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 808
Mmm... I think this perspective is related to business. Look: a flower could be beautiful, but it's not art until someone puts the flower in a frame. I mean, art is a mental process in the minds of people. So, it's art if someone says it is. It doesn't mean that it is good art; it just means that art is emotion and thought, not an object.
I came to this conclusion while listening to a song where the beat is a loop. There are not even drums, just the rapper. I don't care about appropriateness; I know that I love that track and I’ve listened to it a thousand times, while I’ve only heard the original once. The emotion is different, the contact, the feel, the idea Is different, even if the loop Is the same. Who choosed and looped that sample made his artistic decision and d I'm thankful to him (and to people that made the original.)

So my thought is: just create beautiful things. When it's time to enjoy it, that is the only thing that makes a difference in whether I listen to it or not.
The thing is, the original was already Art, and no one was questioning that or the resultant record. (Excluding those culturless idiots)

Appropriation is far more closely linked concept... the idea of authorship - is that your work or did you just take someone else's work.

Reinterpretation.

Myself trying to not overindulge in this thread, as I think it's all just an overthinking. (Though in not against that, just I've found it a complete hindrance in life and creativity.)
 

attila

ILLIEN
Battle Points: 57
The thing is, the original was already Art, and no one was questioning that or the resultant record. (Excluding those culturless idiots)

Appropriation is far more closely linked concept... the idea of authorship - is that your work or did you just take someone else's work.

Reinterpretation.

Myself trying to not overindulge in this thread, as I think it's all just an overthinking. (Though in not against that, just I've found it a complete hindrance in life and creativity.)
Don't worry, just talking and thinking on the way.. i learn from other people point of view and possibly I can change my mind. I see all the implications about credits, authorship and stuff. I don't care who take the money. I'm just happy if people sample, do collages, ect. if I can enjoy good stuff (in someway of course new idea) and they don't stop themselves cuz it is unfair.
 
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