Mumble or dumble?
- Thread starter Iron Keys
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Honestly i think not having the music is what makes it better. The cadence of modern battle rap wouldnt work with most beats if any at all anyway. The structure they use allows way more leeway for creative punchlines without sacrificing clarity for the sake of syllable structure.
Battle rap circuits werent really my point though. I was using beef as an example of how the competitive edge of mainstream hip hop culture has been rounded and dulled over the past few decades. Its to the point that not only is it effectively non-existant, theres literally no purpose in these people to try to be better at their craft than anyone anymore and it really shows.
Battle rap circuits werent really my point though. I was using beef as an example of how the competitive edge of mainstream hip hop culture has been rounded and dulled over the past few decades. Its to the point that not only is it effectively non-existant, theres literally no purpose in these people to try to be better at their craft than anyone anymore and it really shows.
yeah i was surprised... i saw '50mins' i was like, 'nope'. Thought i'd try catch a glimpse.
I watched it in parts, but quite surprised how I was able to get through serious amounts of minutes without 'feeling' it (the time).
Kotd has some of the best lines in hip hop
2infamouz
Mad Beats, No Angry Vegetables
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 10
My interpretation was that his "backyard" cosplays as a vagina
Tarboosh Record
ILLIEN
Battle Points: 27
man... Ive gone back and forth on this very subject many times.... I have sort of settled on this-
Hip Hop in the very early stages was about vibe. The MC was just there to hype the DJ up. They didnt say anything too deep and was very simple rhymes etc It was all about the VIBE.... Then after a while Melle Mel, Busy Bee, GM Caz etc stepped up the lyrical game and spawned the 4 pillars of MCing- KRS, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap and Rakim. From here you can see a lineage of MCs who took their style (and adapted it) from those 4 folks... Anyways, as the popularity of Hip Hop took over the world and the DJ became secondary to the Rapper and the Southern Style of Hip Hop came to the fore, that VIBE element became more prevalent again. The older heads shunned it to their detriment. Younger cats followed suit... and here we are today. I dont necessarily understand a lot of it, but I know its more about catching a VIBE or feeling as opposed to 'schoolin' people with their 'lyrical prowess' haha... To me it comes across as lazy I guess, BUT there are PLENTY of real heads out there creating great music in any style you like you just have to dig for it. They just dont get the airplay or big money looks, but they exist and make a living... and they need our support. So nowadays, rather than expend my energy complaining about the charts (I never really checked for the charts anyways), I put that energy into sifting through music to find stuff I like to support (buying merch or physical music or going to see live shows).
OK, rant over haha
Hip Hop in the very early stages was about vibe. The MC was just there to hype the DJ up. They didnt say anything too deep and was very simple rhymes etc It was all about the VIBE.... Then after a while Melle Mel, Busy Bee, GM Caz etc stepped up the lyrical game and spawned the 4 pillars of MCing- KRS, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap and Rakim. From here you can see a lineage of MCs who took their style (and adapted it) from those 4 folks... Anyways, as the popularity of Hip Hop took over the world and the DJ became secondary to the Rapper and the Southern Style of Hip Hop came to the fore, that VIBE element became more prevalent again. The older heads shunned it to their detriment. Younger cats followed suit... and here we are today. I dont necessarily understand a lot of it, but I know its more about catching a VIBE or feeling as opposed to 'schoolin' people with their 'lyrical prowess' haha... To me it comes across as lazy I guess, BUT there are PLENTY of real heads out there creating great music in any style you like you just have to dig for it. They just dont get the airplay or big money looks, but they exist and make a living... and they need our support. So nowadays, rather than expend my energy complaining about the charts (I never really checked for the charts anyways), I put that energy into sifting through music to find stuff I like to support (buying merch or physical music or going to see live shows).
OK, rant over haha
I would say, the most influential lyricist to me in the golden era of hip hop was Treach. Every artist that I listen to on a pure lyricism basis has their roots in the multi-syllable patterns that Treach pioneered. He always was a triple star MC, and its unfortunate that 2000s ended on a sound that didn't have an equal dynamic between beats and lyricism, but that's been the case for decades now. I'm fairly new to making beats personally. I'm a much better rapper than I am actually making sounds. It hurts me to think what mainstream hip hop has become. Don't get me wrong, simplistic early hip hop isn't something that I would listen to now adays from a new head, but it holds weight in the history behind it. Southern hip hop in the early 2000s as far as I'm concerned was the beginning of the end. And I don't think talent was the problem in that case. I think it was laziness. That was the era where all the biggest artists admitted that they don't write down anything. They just go off the top, and if it sounds remotely good they cut it and send it off to their engineers. T-pain is a phenominal singer in his own right, but his autotune sound (despite not needing to use it) inspired a whole generation of degenerates copying the same shit over and over again. Same thing with Wayne. Since autotune became the norm it inspired people who have no talent to try to make it.
I can't think of another genre that has such a disparity in talent between people who have a following but aren't huge and the A-list artists. It's insane how uninterested in the competitive nature of lyricism that hip hop has devolved into on the large scale. Hell even most of the beats now adays are a 3 note melody and 808s. What makes that good? Where is the creativity involved?
I can't think of another genre that has such a disparity in talent between people who have a following but aren't huge and the A-list artists. It's insane how uninterested in the competitive nature of lyricism that hip hop has devolved into on the large scale. Hell even most of the beats now adays are a 3 note melody and 808s. What makes that good? Where is the creativity involved?
Kane the MOD
Grey haired Boom Bap Rap Dad
Battle Points: 6
Dumbed down minimal music is probably just right for the majority of the device distracted population.
Tarboosh Record
ILLIEN
Battle Points: 27
yeah this guy doesnt get mentioned nearly enough! But I would say he got his style from Kool G Rap (and adapted it and elevated it)... Im not sure of treachs influence bcos he was in a lane all his own at some point and MCs were very scared of him. A unique talent...
Also... I really dont think there is more wack stuff nowadays, relatively speaking... I remember there being plenty copycats and wack mofos spitting in the 90s. Lots of them. I think now bcos the tech has made it much more accessible to make beats its just got way over-saturated. And record labels have always been chasing that mon£y at the end of the day, that hasnt changed, its just become easier to manufacture 'talent'...
As I said before, I think there are just as many dope heads out today making music as there was in the 90s! (maybe even more?) You just have to dig deeper to find them...
OGBama
Big Clit Energy
I @iDeaLoGiK blame Jay and B.I.G. for the “cats going off top and refusing to write” stance that Southern rappers took to mainly Wayne. Ask @IceBerg High he ghostwrote for both.
Kane the MOD
Grey haired Boom Bap Rap Dad
Battle Points: 6
I am also guilty of that. Even as a beatmaker I spent more time and money on buying VSTs than actually making beats for a long time. Cool thing though is that now I have all the tools that I need.
Nah nah you raise good points hereman... Ive gone back and forth on this very subject many times.... I have sort of settled on this-
Hip Hop in the very early stages was about vibe. The MC was just there to hype the DJ up. They didnt say anything too deep and was very simple rhymes etc It was all about the VIBE.... Then after a while Melle Mel, Busy Bee, GM Caz etc stepped up the lyrical game and spawned the 4 pillars of MCing- KRS, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap and Rakim. From here you can see a lineage of MCs who took their style (and adapted it) from those 4 folks... Anyways, as the popularity of Hip Hop took over the world and the DJ became secondary to the Rapper and the Southern Style of Hip Hop came to the fore, that VIBE element became more prevalent again. The older heads shunned it to their detriment. Younger cats followed suit... and here we are today. I dont necessarily understand a lot of it, but I know its more about catching a VIBE or feeling as opposed to 'schoolin' people with their 'lyrical prowess' haha... To me it comes across as lazy I guess, BUT there are PLENTY of real heads out there creating great music in any style you like you just have to dig for it. They just dont get the airplay or big money looks, but they exist and make a living... and they need our support. So nowadays, rather than expend my energy complaining about the charts (I never really checked for the charts anyways), I put that energy into sifting through music to find stuff I like to support (buying merch or physical music or going to see live shows).
OK, rant over haha
And I'm all for catching a vibe.
The thing is, you can catch a vibe, in the same musical fashion these young cats are, but still do it good and/or clever.
But they don't. Or majority at least. The little utterings are often nonsensical. And a lot of time poorly delivered. Now, there are people who do the mumble thing and deliver and perform it well, and even say something vaguely cool or whatnot... but there are tonnes with poor delivery of it (even within that style), and people just don't notice. At all. it's like they have ZERO quality concept for the style they listen to, and it's unfortunately due to the gift and curse of accessibility. All they care is it's got hat rolls, 808s, autotuned vocal, and they'll literally think anything is good... I've never seen a discerning listener of that style of music.
It's possible to achieve quality within that style... but what's the point? who that even listens to that even cares? or has the capacity for discerning it?
it's all about hype and being a clone.
Now that's a rant!
Over and out.
OGBama
Big Clit Energy
Would @iDeaLoGiK you not listen to simplistic Hip Hop from a new head 'cause it's already been done better by the pioneers or? I'll admit my guilty pleasure is listening to some older simplistic Hip Hop for reasons like voice timbre, etc. but most importantly some older cats knew how to stay on topic unlike many of today's (c)rappers and while I'm aware some newer acts I like know how to stay on topic the vast majority seem to just ramble, mumble rappers or not.
OGBama
Big Clit Energy
Tarboosh Record
ILLIEN
Battle Points: 27
Same sh*t was happening in the 90s man... When Das FX dropped with the 'hibbedy-skibbedy-dippedy' flows there were hundreds of wack copycats trying (and failing) to emulate them... It got obnoxious for a while and ended up deading Das FXs career too bcos everyone was sick of it
Fade
The Beat Strangler
Administrator
illest o.g.
That Das EFX flow was dope..... when they did it. Some tried but it didn't make sense because it was so obvious. But then again today we have that "catch your breath" flow which seems to be all the rage.Same sh*t was happening in the 90s man... When Das FX dropped with the 'hibbedy-skibbedy-dippedy' flows there were hundreds of wack copycats trying (and failing) to emulate them... It got obnoxious for a while and ended up deading Das FXs career too bcos everyone was sick of it