2pac - Loyal to the Game : not THAT bad

[o-a-ksavage]

I agree, this sight is packed with talent, and many producers on here come with hard beats left and right. But what is clear is that A) Everyone has different taste, and B) biases strongly effect peoples' points of view. The first point is obvious and doesn't require explanation, but as an example many people name Primo as the greatest producer ever, whereas I went out and bought the Full-clip album to see for myself and his beats were POOPIE. Not to say I didn't like about three beats on the album, but other than that the CD sucked, and it was a greatest hits album (and it's not that it's not my style either, i liked the gritty sample sound, but it just wasn't good music). Point B is clear in the fact that there's almost no one on here who is a fan of Eminem as a rapper but not a producer, or vice versa. Personally, I am not a fan of him as a producer, I am a fan of some of his beats. The only producers I've ever run across that I've been able to be a fan of are Kanye and Dre, because in my opinion they are the only truly consistent producers I've heard (For the record I think Kanye is a TERRIBLE rapper). Everyone esle, including Eminem, has some good beats and some bad beats. Some producers have a higher batting average than others, and in my opinion Em is above average in that category.

All this talk about it not really being his music because he has musicians playing is nonsense. Pretty much every producer out there who is not strictly a sampler does the same thing.

 

[Rhythmikal]

The Eminem Show beats were his best, that was his peak of his production career IMO. he's pretty much flopped since then. until we now exactly whats happening when Em produces a beat (because we dont, we presume), then we cannot judge whether so and so will 'eat' Em on production.

i will say this though: some of Scott Storch's sounds are just as corny if not worse.

sAfE.

 

[Cold Truth]

no... see my argument about his beats not "really" being his are to illistrate my point- i have no problem with using live musicians. lots of people do it, and i myself await the day i have those resources. i think it makes you that much more dangerous when you can orcestrate people.

that said, the illistartion is that he has very good resources at his disposal, and yet the music still inst up to par even with people on this site, let alone the industry. i've heard the occasional track that i liked (the way i am being one) to come from this method of his.... but they have gotten progressively WORSE- not better. "the way i am " was original.... basically a classic track... outside of taht i cant think of one truly dope em beat....

and igot no problem with dude learning... seriously i hope anyone who does this succeeds.... so to that end my "hate" isnt towards him.. its towards the people that dont even question it... cause for real at the end of the day he's being robbed..... he's like rocky balboa in rocky three..... turns out a lot of his fights were fixed..... i have a LOT of respect for dudes mic skills- but over the last few years he has just turned himself into a joke, a self parody.... a clown... i keep waitin for this dude to drop the bullshit gimmicks and cheesy songs (some of which are entertaining i admit) but thats wierd al territory he's gettin into.,... "ass like that" is a twisted wierd al song... i keep waitin for him to say ok "lets be serious for an album" and go for greatness. the guy has insight, he has creativity, but apparantly its VERY limited....

and this album is a prime example... dude wasnt worthy of this project. there are so many dudes better suited to it and he got it.... why? who knows. politics. people say "hes on top so it must be soley because of his skills" and that is not the truth.

 

[Rhythmikal]

no... see my argument about his beats not "really" being his are to illistrate my point- i have no problem with using live musicians. lots of people do it, and i myself await the day i have those resources. i think it makes you that much more dangerous when you can orcestrate people.

that said, the illistartion is that he has very good resources at his disposal, and yet the music still inst up to par even with people on this site, let alone the industry. i've heard the occasional track that i liked (the way i am being one) to come from this method of his.... but they have gotten progressively WORSE- not better. "the way i am " was original.... basically a classic track... outside of taht i cant think of one truly dope em beat....

and igot no problem with dude learning... seriously i hope anyone who does this succeeds.... so to that end my "hate" isnt towards him.. its towards the people that dont even question it... cause for real at the end of the day he's being robbed..... he's like rocky balboa in rocky three..... turns out a lot of his fights were fixed..... i have a LOT of respect for dudes mic skills- but over the last few years he has just turned himself into a joke, a self parody.... a clown... i keep waitin for this dude to drop the bullshit gimmicks and cheesy songs (some of which are entertaining i admit) but thats wierd al territory he's gettin into.,... "ass like that" is a twisted wierd al song... i keep waitin for him to say ok "lets be serious for an album" and go for greatness. the guy has insight, he has creativity, but apparantly its VERY limited....

and this album is a prime example... dude wasnt worthy of this project. there are so many dudes better suited to it and he got it.... why? who knows. politics. people say "hes on top so it must be soley because of his skills" and that is not the truth.

thats the truth right there man ^^

hes got the resources, oppourtunity and probably the talent to make tight beats, but he just doesnt come out with any consistent solid stuff.

sAfE.

 

[Qwerty]

Dre dident start out with a bunch of studio musicans, and 80,000 dollar studio, dre started like us, , a beat machine, and a dream. He took time to develope his own talent and style.how most producers should start

Maybe when he started, but as soon he went with death row, he had people playing for him and that's pretty much at the start of his career. I say that, cuz in some documentary i think "Welcome to Death Row", dre is in the studio, and there's a lot of people in that studio that are wether engeneering, playing, etc.

but over the last few years he has just turned himself into a joke, a self parody.... a clown... i keep waitin for this dude to drop the bullshit gimmicks and cheesy songs (some of which are entertaining i admit) but thats wierd al territory he's gettin into.,... "ass like that" is a twisted wierd al song... i keep waitin for him to say ok "lets be serious for an album" and go for greatness. the guy has insight, he has creativity, but apparantly its VERY limited....

No, over that last few years?? nah, over that last 10 months, which is about when Encore dropped, it's the only album, with stupid cheesy bullshit. The last albums before Encore, only the lead single was some corny shit and the rest was some real shit.

A lot of people, say "eminem does these corny beats, ex : ass like that", what about Like Toy Soldier, Mockingbird (which are 2 of the 5 good beat in the album).

Maybe to end this "debate", I AGREE that he is no where close to great and I UNDERSTAND that people might not like his beats. I think he's an average producer, which means, 1 beat sucks, 1 beat is good. So to me that's average. I understand the hate toward him as a producer because of all this attention he gets. And by the way, except Kanye, no other artists said he was great, i guess they DO take is beats more cuz he's Eminem. Eminem's situation as a producer is like when Micheal Jordan went to do Baseball (but eminem doesn't sucks as much as Jordan did at baseball lol). He got a lot of attention on tv, just because of is work as a rapper, so Eminem being one of the greatest as a rapper is now getting attention just because of is work as a rapper.

By the way, on my soundclick, page I have Eminem as one of my favorite producer, and that's cuz i did that page around Eminem Show and the 8 mile SoundTrack.

 

[o-a-ksavage]

Cold, I agree with much of what you say, but it's seems like you're tripping off the obvious. Like Querty said, it's similar to Jordan going to baseball. Of course he's going to get that attention, whether he's the best ever or a beginner on fruity loops. I think the coverage he has gotten has been more like "Eminem, one of the most famous entertainers in the businesses, is now producing," as opposed to "Eminem is one of the greatest producers." So yeah he's going to get the cover of Scratch cause he's a big story. To say "he doesn't deserve it" is pointless, cause in entertainment, the companees (magazines, record labels) are going to do what sells, they're not giving out awards. When Eminem gets Producer of the Year award, then get mad and say he doesn't deserve it, but even then, don't hate the player hate the game.

 

[o-a-ksavage]

A lot of people, say "eminem does these corny beats, ex : ass like that", what about Like Toy Soldier, Mockingbird (which are 2 of the 5 good beat in the album).

What are the other three you're thinking of. I agree so far, I'm saying Yellow Brick Road, Spend Some Time and Encore are the other three outta the five.

 

[Cold Truth]

^good point

its hard not to be bitter when im tryin to get my first break and this dude CANT hold my jock in my opinion but gets crazy work... so yeah in that respect there is legit hate in my statements, and i dont deny that.

honestly i do want to see dude succeed and get better, but i think that getting full, major projects like this tupac album are a bad look and a black eye on the production game.

 

[Qwerty]

What are the other three you're thinking of. I agree so far, I'm saying Yellow Brick Road, Spend Some Time and Encore are the other three outta the five.

Definitely, your right on point, it's the only songs on there that are worth "eminem album" material.

honestly i do want to see dude succeed and get better, but i think that getting full, major projects like this tupac album are a bad look and a black eye on the production game.

That i agree, 120%. But I have this feeling that no one wanted to take this project. The great producers of today : Dre, Kanye, Just Blaze, Timbo, Havoc(a lil on the felling verge I think), Kanye was probably mad busy, Havoc is not known enuff in the mainstream publick, Just Blaze could've done it, probably prefered to work with Saigon and his other dudes, Timberland's style just wouldn't have matched. Dre SHOULD have been the one to handle that project. Afeni Shakur and the executers 's choice for eminem really shows that they are not doing these post-release for 2pac legacy but more for the money, so a big figure like Eminem was the perfect money making fit.