Beat Biters: Has sampling gone too far? (Written By Leslie D. Chustz)

ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
We’ve all done it, we’ve all blasted the radio and screamed, “Oohhh, that’s my song,” only to realize that it’s not Truth Hurts’s “Addictive,” but “Do It (‘Til You’re Satisfied)” by B.T. Express, it’s Diana Ross’s “I’m Coming Out” instead of The Notorious B.I.G.’s “Mo Money Mo Problems,” it’s Monica singing “Don’t Take it Personal,” instead of L.L. Cool J’s “Back Seat of my Jeep,” or better yet it’s Gladys Knight’s version of “The Way We Were” rather Wu Tang Clan’s hip hop classic “C.R.E.A.M.” Any way you look at it, people are tired of falling victim to the young, talentless, beat-biting producers of the new millennium.

Some may ask, “What’s the big deal if it works well, makes sense and sells – that’s a good thing, right?” Well, sometimes it is and sometimes it’s just plain wrong. For example, I commend Erik Sermon for his song “Music” whose credit reads: Erik Sermon featuring Marvin Gaye. Clearly Sermon knew that he had used too much of Gaye’s voice to call it his own, but artists like Jay Z, who created a smash hit with his song “Girls, Girls, Girls” which uses a sample of a song titled “Girls,” and the remix using even more of the song for the hook with Jay Z never attributing the song’s originator. As a matter of fact, I would not even have known that the hook wasn’t created by Jay Z had I not been curious enough to read the fine print inside the sleeve notes of his Blueprint album,which is something you have to do nowadays, yet, it didn’t help much because I still don’t know whose song “Girls” is.

Sampling has gotten so bad lately that artists have gone so far as to steal rhymes from other rappers. I can’t even count how many times I have heard people use lyrics straight from Rob Base’s “It Takes Two,” you know where he says, “I wanna’ rock right now/I’m Rob Base and I came to get down,/I’m not internationally known, /but I’m known to rock the microphone/ ‘Cause I get stupid I mean outrageous,/Stay away from me if you’re contagious. Well, the most recent copycats are L.L. Cool J who features a similar rhyme in his song “After School” by L.L. Cool J and the beat and lyric biting king himself, P. Diddy. In the song they say, “I wanna rock right now/L.L. and Diddy, we came to get down,/Yes, we’re internationally known/For making movies and the microphone,/‘Cause we get crazy I mean outrageous/You rollin wit’ us, you rollin’ wit’ flavor. And yes, they use the same tune Rob Base originally laid his lyrics over. What is this world coming to, I mean, L.L. Cool J made it through nine albums before hooking up with P. Diddy and made himself look bad. Correct me if I’m wrong, but rhyming is a thing where if you don’t write your own lyrics, then you have no talent. We all know that’s not true about L.L. and let’s hope he realizes his mistake and never does that again.

It may be true that we all love those old school tunes and some of us don’t even mind hearing tight lyrics or new songs laced over them, but enough is enough. Some of the most sampled artists are Debarge and Michael Jackson.

First let’s talk about my boy Mike, whose “Human Nature” has been sampled for the likes of Nas’ “It Ain’t Hard to Tell” and SWV’s “Right Here.” Lil’ Romeo used “I Want You Back” for his first single, “My Baby” and The Notorious B.I.G. also used it for the LP version of his “One More Chance.” Naughty by Nature sampled “ABC” for their hip hop classic “O.P.P.,” and Ghostface Killah of Wu Tang Clan used “Maybe Tomorrow” for his heartfelt song “All That I Got Is You.”
80’s sensation Debarge are heavily sampled as well. The Notorious B.I.G. used “Stay With Me” for his “One More Chance”remix, lifting the hook straight from the original: “Don’t go, don’t go, don’t go – I love you so” which most people thought and probably still think is a line form Mary J. Blige’s song “Don’t Go.” But nope, she borrowed that one from Debarge too. Ashanti has also used “Stay With Me” for her first single, “Foolish” but of course we all thought she was sampling Biggie in which she eventually did for the song’s remix. Rapper AZ uses two Debarge songs on one his AZiatic album. “All This Love” was used for his song “Problems” and “Love Me in a Special Way” for his “Love Me.” Ashanti used the same sample on the sly in her song called “Dreams.” While we’re talking about Ashanti, how in the world did Irv Gotti just think it was okay to sample Scarface’s “Mary Jane?” I didn’t even think that song was old enough to be sampled as if there were an age limit on samples. She’s also used the Gap Band’s “Outstanding” for her song “Happy.” It’s not very evident in the LP version, but boy can you tell on the remix!

I may speak of sampling like it is something new, but quite the contrary--older artists are also guilty. Old school crooner, Brenda Mason laid her hit, “Am I the Same Girl” over Young Holt Unlimited’s “The Soulful Strut,” and Stephanie Mills’s “Feel The Fire” sure does remind me of The Friends of Distinction’s “Going in Circles.”
So yes, it’s been done before, but newer producers seem to be glamorizing the idea and it just plain sucks!
Well as it seems I have just been bashing artists and producers for their skills in beat biting, but there are still some great artists that can make their own music – there’s, and then there’s and oh yeah there’s – dag, I can’t think of anyone!
No, seriously all jokes aside, much love and respect to The Roots (the only group that I can think of right now) for being their own band, writing their own lyrics – which by the way have also been sampled. Ever heard City High’s song “Caramel:” “Caramel complected--for real and that’s no question, no frontin’ or no guessin’.” Well, that would be the voice of The Roots’s, Black Thought, from their song “Silent Treatment.”

I guess there’s just no escape from getting caught up in this lyric and beat stealing rapture, but there’s just one thing I have to say to you, Hip-Hop, you’ve been my love for quite some time now, till death do us par; but if you keep going in the direction you’re going in, that’s just what’s going to happen and I’m not the one who’s going to die. Don’t get it twisted, there’s nothing wrong with a little sample here and there, but a little originality along with it wouldn’t hurt one bit or shall I say bite?
 

SupaStar

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Finally - wings one thats easy on the eyes - and doesn't take a water break to go through, lol. But this is evident throughout all cultures and world music - for some reason in the strive to make hits and quick money, older tracks are sampled and re-used. In hip-hop its not very easily noticeable, but take the music of my country - reggae/dancehall and it is just sickening and embarassing to hear it, seeing that in Jamaica their sampling and producing skills down there are not too advanced so you can figure out and indentify the stolen tracks within the first minute of song play. I bet everyones heard of elephant man by now - listen to his album, hes the puff daddy of our country. And all this re sampling will some day be responsible for the loss of interest and artistes' appreciation for their music. Though many say hip hop will never die - it can not in our minds, but the way the true hip hop we knew is made can die if this continues and if the next generation doesn't come on stronger by creating newer footsteps - we will just as many other things that black people hold true to their culture loose it .
My two cents
keep all change
 

Wattz21XX

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
i thought "C.R.E.A.M." was The Charmells "I'll Never Grow Old"
anyways i disagree wit the way she says hip needs to change its direction when all the old hip hop hits dating back to the 80's were sample based. sampling has always been a part of hip hop and i dont think its gonna change. theres been stages where synths where "in" as far as hip hop beats but i think right now its just a mixture of all styles and its koo how it is production wise, the conent of the music out today, thats a whole different story....
thas my 2 cents
nice article Wings

pz

Wattz
 

Guevara

BETTER THAN YESTERDAY
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 34
Originally STATED BY SoME iGNoRANT BiTCH REPoRTiNG oN HiP HoP
...people are tired of falling victim to the young, talentless, beat-biting producers of the new millennium.
THiS BiTCH iS CRAZY, WHAT SHE BASiCALLY SAiD iS THAT SHE ENJoYS THE MUSiC UNTiL SHE REALiZES THAT itS A SAMPLE, So iT GoES FRoM "THATS MY SoNG" To "oH THATS WACK CUZ iTS SAMPLED" iM So TirED oF HiPPoCRiTES, SoUNDS LiKE A FEW PEoPLE oN HERE SoME tiME AGo.
WE SAMPLE SiMPLE SoUNDS FRoM SoNGS AND iTS BiTiNG
BUT LET MANDY MoORE RECoRD A WHoLE FUCKiN ALBUM oF oTHER PEoPLES SHiT AND iTS A "CoVER ALBUM"
iTS PAYING HoMAGE To iNFLUENCES
WHY CANT LL AND DiDDY RECiTE THE LYRiCS To ANoTHERS SoNG ATLEAST THEY ATTEMPTED To CHANGE THE LYRiCS.
(LET iT BE KNoWN i THiNK MANDY MoORE iS CRAZY SEXY...iM NoT MAD AT YoU BABY, iT JUST AiNT FAiR)
LETS SAY THAT EVERY ARTiST GETS A FEATURE CREDiT oN EVERY SoNG THATS SAMPLED, DAMN iTS BAD ENoUGH THAT THEY GET RoYALTiES AND SAMPLE CLEARANCE MoNEY BUT Do THEY NEED EXTRA SoNG WRiTiNG CREDiTS.
WiNGS WHERED U GET THiS FRoM???
WHo THE FUCK iS SHoRTY To CoMMENT oN HiP HoP.
MiCHAEL JACKSoN iS NoT SAMPLED THAT MUCH iN FACT THiS DUDE HATES RAP AND RARELY GiVES ANYBoDY THE PERMiSSiON To SAMPLE HiS SHiT.
AS FAR AS THE SAMPLE GoES AND THE CREDiT, RAPPERS SHoULDNT BE RESPoNSiBLE FoR TRYiN To FiGURE oUT A FUCKiN SAMPLE REGARDLESS oF HoW SUCCESSFUL THE SoNG iS, A GoOD RAPPER WoULD BE CoNCERNED BUT iT AiNT THEiR JoBS.AS LoNG AS THE BUSiNESS iS WoRKED oUT THEN ARTiST SHoULD BE ARTiST, AND THE PEoPLE WHo CARE WiLL READ THE PRoDUCTiON CREDitS To FiGURE oUT WHo DiD WHAT AND WHERE ANYTHiNG CoMES FRoM.
DEADSERiOUS CiTY!i!
Originally STATED BY SoME iGNoRANT BiTCH REPoRTiNG oN HiP HoP
...people are tired of falling victim to the young, talentless, beat-biting producers of the new millennium.
...THAT SHiT JUST HURTS.
 

fatsdowrong

"SNAPPIN' SKULZ"
ill o.g.
yo thats the realist shit i read in the lounge for a minute kidd! word....
im tired of people runnin their mouthes on the way we choose to make our shitz, what a nigga cant like roy ayers and admire his producin capabilities, by flatterin the man with a different version of his original song? how far will they go? i sample because you cant get that kind of soul from a pre-programmed sound wave... its spur of the moment type shit ya digg?ITS ALL ABOUT CREATIVITY ON A DIFFERENT PLANE. we can all sit down at the same triton and make the same exact beat with the same exact sounds, thats the same shit im talkin bout' but put some of us at the same sampler wit the same records and we'll come up wit some incredible super human creative blackout shit ya know? its hard to recreate a sampled sound twice... i cant even copy my own sound sometimes...
peep this madlib and roy ayers interview www.stonesthrow.com/news/royayers-madlib/index.html see if that dont fight the power.lol
peace
 

Guevara

BETTER THAN YESTERDAY
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 34
To TAKE A QUoTE FRoM FATS (WHo ToOK A QUoTE FRoM DELA-HoWS THAT FoR PRoPER CREDiT..LOL)

WHATEVER HAPPENED To THE (BEAT MAKERS)
TiMES DoNE CHANGED FoR THE (BEAT MAKERS)
EVERY WoMAN AND MAN WANNA BE (BEAT MAKERS)
BUT FoR WHAT??? i TELL YoU MAKiN BEATS AiNT FoR YoU.

P.S DEAR AMERiE, ME AND MANDY ARE JUST FRiENDS, i MEANT "CRAZY SEXY" iN A ToTALLY PLAToNiC FASHiON.SHE AiNT FUCKiN WiT U.BABY CoME BACK HoME PLEASE.LoVE CiTY......LOL
 

bigdmakintrax

BeatKreatoR
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 123
bu look the way you sample with borrowing elements like drums and synths and basses or whuddeva from an old record is hot, even though I am against sampling huge parts of songs in tracks I think that there should be a rule like you can legally sample 2 seconds max that would open up so much new music that could make it above ground.....all you need is a second or so of a synth or key and you got a whole keyboard of that instrument.......and you create everything else....
 

SupaStar

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
I guess we all have our reason to throw hate at this girl for her opinion, but let us all look at it the things shes saying in my perspective. She's saying how can you even begin to treasure or even become true fans of an artiste, if all that person does is sampling.......she ended by saying hip hop's her love, but not this hip hop what we're listening. And we all know there are two types of sampling the one where you sample to add "spice" to your beats, and the one where people just use other artistes track and re do them thinking they make it better. They might, but whats the sense, its like me for instance when I was younger I fell in love with a whole catalogue of reggae artistes, for they were making songs I loved. As I grew older and discovered the originators, I was thoroughly disappointed and the end result - I have lost fanfare for a number of reggae artistes for doing this and dancehall itself.
And I think all she's saying is that she wants to hang-on to her love for hip hop, but finding out the hits she loved wasn't by her favorite artistes, what is there for hold on to her love of hip-hop as time goes by...
Dont bash me for what I said..
I'm sensitive.
 
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
well, let it be known, that i strongly disagree with Ms. Leslie D. Chustz.

i am a samplist and i'm proud of that.
no one can change my opinion about sampling; i sample whatever i want, from whichever source possible. yet, i will always credit the original artists - without whom, all of my sampling hadn't been possible.

My music is not solely based on sampling. it's pretty much 50-50. i don't care about all the definitions (keyboard beats, sampled beats etc'). we, as beatmakers & producers, gotta use whatever we can to make the beat sound dope.

the article is taken from: http://www.xula.edu/herald/issues/20021202/editorials.html


Take Care,
Wings
 

Freakwncy

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 17
the only thing that defines a true musican from the rest is... his heart, and it's love for music....

if someone was bitting my beats, i would take that as a complement.... saying.. 'hey your sh*t is so dope that i had to try to be like you'...its like a kid trying to immate... AI or M.Jordan.... or MJ [ie:james brown]....as long as they give credit were credit is due....then its all LOVE....
 

eka

Mad samplist productions
ill o.g.
I agree with you wings 100% (just check my name)
when you sample you take a break or a piece out of the song that rocks.
when you listen to bob james, he can make a track that sucks but the break or intro rocks.
so it doesn't mean that when you love the sampled hip hop track, that you also like the original.
I agree with giving credits where credits are due.
sometimes even rhymes that are "stolen" can be dope, but it has to be done like a hommage to the one who wrote it. (for example the message from madlib/message grandmaster flash.)



Originally posted by WingsOfAnAngel
well, let it be known, that i strongly disagree with Ms. Leslie D. Chustz.

i am a samplist and i'm proud of that.
no one can change my opinion about sampling; i sample whatever i want, from whichever source possible. yet, i will always credit the original artists - without whom, all of my sampling hadn't been possible.

My music is not solely based on sampling. it's pretty much 50-50. i don't care about all the definitions (keyboard beats, sampled beats etc'). we, as beatmakers & producers, gotta use whatever we can to make the beat sound dope.

the article is taken from: http://www.xula.edu/herald/issues/20021202/editorials.html


Take Care,
Wings
 

mono

the invisible visible
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 20
yo krzy, im feelin you on that dissapointment point. there are these tracks, and you be loving 'em for years, because you are just blown away by the mad creativity comin out of the melody lines and the lyrics,how it all fits. and then, one day, you be munchin your flakes and by the way there comes a nice seventees tune from your radio and at the time the hook starts you be like: oh fuck! ... i know that and they took it 1:1. i mean its ok, but the magic is away. like janets/qtips' got till its gone, originally performed by joni mitchell.
i had that feeling a few times, and its not only in musicindustry. everywhere there are people whos job it is to be creative, and they be like: yeah thats fat, lets bite it.
im workin at a small cinema, they showin kind of artmovies and cultural program there, and ive seen a few flicks, which i thought about like - hmm ive seen this before. the soundtrack,the style, the story...
movies like "the ring" or "the cell" ,completely stolen ideas. from tip to toe.

so whats my point ? :)
people be biting in a cheap way and makin millions with it, all about the benjamins, on the other hand there are creative artists tearin the shit out of themselfs, to make something new and maybe never get the respect they deserve. yeah...thats it
nothing u can do about it, unfair world :)
moral of my story:
fuck biters and stick with the real ones, cos its AINT all about the benjamins.... peace
 

pirell

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
so is it safe then to say that classical music is the only real genre of unique production? one of my tutors at my prod school, used to say that there are only 4 real combinations of drum beats.....all the rest lead back to those 4 somehow. the new stuff coming out is quite annoying, though many of the points you were making are actually covers not sampling in the real sense of it...maybe im wrong. if its the covers you're talking about then yes...i have a big problem with that and the way its got outta hand now.

covers should be like "die without you" covered by PM dawn, or "ill always love u" covered by crackney, my bad i mean whitney Houston...hell and sampling should be like 'cant touch this' by MC hammer i dare to say, many others...california by tupac..all that. now its all wack
 

dacalion

Hands Of FIRE!
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 259
First, I'm not trying to convince anybody to change their ways, I dont care if you see this my way or not and this is NOT an attack on your work ethics. Sampling is OK. Theres nothing wrong with sampling. The problem comes in when you start sampling ish that wasn't meant to be sampled...just because you dont care if people sample your work doesnt make it ok for you to sample mine. Just because PD, The Neps, Premo, Dre or any other producer sampled somebody else's music doesnt make it OK for anybody to sample mine. My music is personal to me, I've spent many nights up until the early hours of the morning making my ish, I've put alot of heart and time into making my ish, out of respect for the work that I've done, I would think that anyone who wanted to use my work would ask me first. (just the respectful thing to do.).

People say "its ok to sample uncleared beats if you're not making big money off of it". I disagree, The amount of money thats made has NOTHING to do with the ethics of sampling, it has nothing to do with the reason we have copyright laws, it's just an excuse to say "it's OK". Just because the BIG labels dont go after those people that dont make millions still doesnt make it OK....no matter how you look at it, it's wrong....

YES, I think its OK to sample an uncleared beat if you alter it enough that it isn't recognizable, hell thats about as creative as making it from scratch. It takes a skill to do that, it takes time and effort, it puts your own personal touch on it. I'm feeling that.

Wings is a very good friend of mine and I'm not knocking him or any of you who also are for sampling "uncleared" samples. Wings and I have discussed this already and we have a mutual understanding. It's NONE of my business to how you make your music or what you do with other peoples work. Thats left up to you solely. I will support any producer that samples because I'm no hater. I know what it means to be limited and broke, unable to pay for samples, I just dont endorse coming up with any excuse to make it ok.

dacalion
 

mono

the invisible visible
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 20
i dont agree with that ethical point. seems like a very capitalistic world picture to me ;)
plus, i aint stealing no bread from anybodies table !? right ? and...
i never sampled a whole musical concept, im just "lending" out 2 seconds of atmosphere -!- (its a question of the intention), which i need to make my point clear when im in front of the crowd. its a positive process allover,isnt it ?!?! .... :)

AND, everybodie's "sampling" ideas with his mind, from birth on and then he (or she) grows, and samples opinions, styles, behaviours, colors, whatever.... its natural

-> its ok , c ya
 
C

CooGi_dice

Guest
there is nothing wrong with sampling when its done the right way, but evryone has a diffrent opinion on what exactly is the right way.

if all your doing is taking 2 and 4 bar loops and stringing them together to create what you call a "song" well that is corny, and your not a producer.

even if your doing the same thing and adding original drums it can get corny if thats all u can do, yes back in the day many classics where created this way, even some of my favorite songs but i just feal like some people sample something put some drums and bass behind it and maybe even a synth on the hook and consider it a song, but if thats all u can do and all your songs are created using the same format well, i just think thats trash.

no matter what you do with a givin sample i feal its never going to be creativly equal to creating something original from scratch.

another thing is the people who sample hip-hop produders stuff and think there joints are ill, no thats just wrong and those people are obviously not hip-hop heads and do not understand the culture at all.
 

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