Fight #345: ZTheMastermind vs. 2GooD Productions
[Fight Ends: 5 days, 1 hour, 30 minutes left]
Beat This! Beat This! Competition - June 25-26, 2025
- Thread starter Fade
- Start date
M.I.ndless
Big on MySpace
Battle Points: 9
Is there a distinction between using samples and having a sampled beat? We all using samples for the most part no?
attila
ILLIEN
Battle Points: 1
strict rules not only about sampling by Herbert
1. The use of sounds that exist already is not allowed. Subject to article 2. In particular:
No drum machines.
All keyboard sounds must be edited in some way: no factory presets or pre-programmed patches are allowed.
2. Only sounds that are generated at the start of the compositional process or taken from the artist's own previously unused archive are available for sampling.
3. The sampling of other people's music is strictly forbidden.
4. No replication of traditional acoustic instruments is allowed where the financial and physical possibility of using the real ones exists.
5. The inclusion, development, propagation, existence, replication, acknowledgement, rights, patterns and beauty of what are commonly known as accidents, is encouraged. Furthermore, they have equal rights within the composition as deliberate, conscious, or premeditated compositional actions or decisions.
6. The mixing desk is not to be reset before the start of a new track in order to apply a random eq and fx setting across the new sounds. Once the ordering and recording of the music has begun, the desk may be used as normal.
7. All fx settings must be edited: no factory preset or pre-programmed patches are allowed.
8. Samples themselves are not to be truncated from the rear. Revealing parts of the recording are invariably stored there.
9. A notation of sounds used to be taken and made public.
10. A list of technical equipment used to be made public.
11. optional: Remixes should be completed using only the sounds provided by the original artist including any packaging the media was provided in.
attila
ILLIEN
Battle Points: 1
monolake reply
1. make music if you like
2. use what ever you like
3. sample what ever you like
4. respect the work of others
5. do not write maifestos with more then five lines.
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Lots of good and lots of bad music out has been made with preset sounds and/or does include samples taken from libraries or others peoples records.
Dogmatic rules may work for an artist as a guideline for the own work and can do a good job when it comes to focusing on a specific idea but not as a general strategy. Herbert definitly makes great music but his manifesto does not hit the point. Where do you want to stop once you go this way: why not asking for building own machines or write own software ? The later is something quite common among the academic computer music people and also for a lot of guys writing theier own patches in MAX/MSP Supercollider or Reaktor. If i write my own reverb algorithm i may find the rule of not using presets from some hardware fx unit pretty ridicules.
( Especially if i want to feed the output of my lovely strange selfmade reverb into a smooth factory preset from a high price Lexicon reverb unit. Why should it be better to change the reverb time from 4.3 sec ( bad preset !) to 4.32 sec ( not a preset anymore --> good ) ?
Do i really need to re-invent the piano every time i want to play a love song ? Sure there is bad sampling but there are so many ways music can fail that sampling is just a smal part of the whole picture. I once heard a techno track which did incorporate a Depeche Mode sample. My only reaction to it was the strong urge to listen to the original DM track.
The only aspect i can fully understand has to do with what i called "respect for others peoples work". If i take a fantastic bassline from another artist and add cheesy vocals and this thing finally ends up at the top of the charts then i do something which is obviously pretty wrong and quite unfair.
But if The Orb are cutting a two bar loop out of a recording of Steve Reichs "Electric Counterpoint" piece to create a hoockline for their "Little Fluffy Clouds" track i cannot entierly find this wrong. This is due to the fact that their whole work is dedicated to sampling more or less known stuff and that they are not abusing another artist because they are to stupid to do it themselfes. I assume this is what Herbert does not like: going the easy way of stealing instead of working hard to find own solutions. If this is his intention i can agree. But for me the mainfesto is mostly a ( i have to admit : good working ) marketing trick.
Cheers, Robert
( I have to confess: in 1994 Mister G. Behles of ableton fame and me did use a Brian Eno sample in our first monolake record. It was only a one short sample of a thunder storm, not even music, and it only shows up once but we felt very very guilty afterwards. It is somehere on "Cyan I". Sorry Brian... )
I've pissed n shat all over it, I don't think you'd want it back at all. that being said
welllllllllll yes and no. I thought your beat was more soulful and was a lil annoyed that u didn't place, but personally I just find it... rude to vote for someone who got 80% of whatever's good about their music from simply goin snip snip on someone else's already-released music, especially cause I listen to K-waz shit and it sounds like there was a lot of work. if I were to buy the beat and ur samples were already cleared, sure, I'd probably go for yours instead of kwaz, both almost as good, but if I'm to praise one in a battle... Idk that just feels slightly more fair. TO ME. idk tho. I myself upload sampled beats left right n center and even my non sampled ones are bity as fuck.
and there ARE sampled beats that don't give me the "80% of whatever's good about this comes from the sample". that's a diff story.
if kwaz comes out n says his shit was sampled too I'm gonna leave the ill and join alqaeda.
That beat is a sample @Armani but don't leave the ill and join al-Qaida.
Shame on you for snitching @TWU showin people samples. (I really dont care) I could've told him myself. 95% of beats from hiphop is a sample or sample replayed @M.I.ndless. I do both I sample a lot and I make beats from scratch
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attila
ILLIEN
Battle Points: 1
In my opinion, Monolake is also right. I mean, I can choose not to sample anything and then go on a synth where there are all the arpeggios and patterns in the presets, or the chord progressions or beat patterns, and still take 80% of things that someone else has already done. Sure, my track was built on a loop that is central to my piece, and Big Youth did most of the work (I start doing it after the signups was open, just to give an excuse
). But it's a track that doesn't exist if you listen to the original or recognize it, yet it's a new piece. There are tracks, for example, by Amon Tobin where he samples 4 or 8 bars from other records, and they are easily recognizable. Yet his music is unique (not like mine) and sounds so different not only from the records he sampled (even though the samples are very recognizable) but also from any other music that was made before, and it remains relevant even now. Regarding battles, I have a problem too: if I have to reward knowledge, skill, hard work, virtuosity, and technicality, that's one thing. If I have to reward the most beautiful, creative, innovative, and unforgettable beat, well, how difficult and complex it was to create it doesn't matter.
attila
ILLIEN
Battle Points: 1
here the whole bass line is taken from Soonny Rollins' "Softly As In A Morning Sunrise" and some sax too, the orchestral strings are from Charlie Parker. Well, I would vote for tracks good like this without any doubt even if is near to be an edit. It required high level of skills but most important is a true masterpice delivered to music history!In my opinion, Monolake is also right. I mean, I can choose not to sample anything and then go on a synth where there are all the arpeggios and patterns in the presets, or the chord progressions or beat patterns, and still take 80% of things that someone else has already done. Sure, my track was built on a loop that is central to my piece, and Big Youth did most of the work (I start doing it after the signups was open, just to give an excuse
It's about finding a balance. Sometimes it depends on my mood.
After all, a dope beat is a dope beat and it's about making that dope fucking record.
However, it is a battle, so if it comes down to me choosing between two beats, I'll typically lean towards the one that took more "skill" or "effort."
That's not to say a sample beat wouldn't win in that scenario; it comes down to whether how creatively or well that sample was used. Vs if someone literally just took a 4 or 8 bar loop and slapped drums on it. (Still a valid production choice - but in terms of a battle, eh)
I sometimes put off if people (what I call) cheese too hard. Which is when people try too hard in terms of going to obvious or overpopular things to try and win. If you can cheese subtly or the right way that's all good.
After all, a dope beat is a dope beat and it's about making that dope fucking record.
However, it is a battle, so if it comes down to me choosing between two beats, I'll typically lean towards the one that took more "skill" or "effort."
That's not to say a sample beat wouldn't win in that scenario; it comes down to whether how creatively or well that sample was used. Vs if someone literally just took a 4 or 8 bar loop and slapped drums on it. (Still a valid production choice - but in terms of a battle, eh)
I sometimes put off if people (what I call) cheese too hard. Which is when people try too hard in terms of going to obvious or overpopular things to try and win. If you can cheese subtly or the right way that's all good.
attila
ILLIEN
Battle Points: 1
yeah. when listening, it only matters if the music is beautiful, not whether the person who made is skilled. but here the focus is on producing so we can't ignore that issue.
prodCardellino
Member
Battle Points: 29
Congratulations on the win @2GooD Productions!
@BiggChev, this is my worst mix I've uploaded here. I knew I had a beat from this sample, I didn't have time to make a new one so I found it somewhere and just uploaded it right away. I didn’t even listen to check if it was finished or not
Thank you for your honest opinion
Your beat had an amazing vibe, great job!
Your beats would be so dope if not for those kicks. Note for future, you can upload to secure a spot, and then you can still make changes to your beat afterwards and reupload. Only really need to secure your spot in warzone and battle that as spots are limited. Unless you upload last minute then you may run out of time to make changes and reupload.Congratulations on the win @2GooD Productions!
@BiggChev, this is my worst mix I've uploaded here. I knew I had a beat from this sample, I didn't have time to make a new one so I found it somewhere and just uploaded it right away. I didn’t even listen to check if it was finished or not
Thank you for your honest opinion
Your beat had an amazing vibe, great job!
prodCardellino
Member
Battle Points: 29
I didn’t know I could upload the beat again. Thanks a lot!