CAN HIP HOP LIVE WITHOUT SAMPLING? (By foxxylady)

ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
A surprising new court ruling could have a profound impact on the use of samples in hip-hop and other recordings.

In a decision that some industry lawyers view as contrary to the law, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in Nashville created what it called a "new rule" in copyright law Sepember 7th.

The court held that a mere two-second, unauthorized sample of a guitar solo from Funkadelic's "Get Off Your Ass and Jam" is enough to constitute copyright infringement of the recording.

The sample was used in N.W.A's "100 Miles and Runnin'," a cut on the soundtrack to the 1998 film I Got the Hook Up, produced by Master P's No Limit Films. Bridgeport Music and Westbound Records claim to own the musical composition and Funkadelic's sound recording copyrights, respectively. They joined other parties in filing lawsuits in May 2001 against about 800 defendants for nearly 500 copyright infringement claims for unauthorized sampling.

Roughly half of the claims have been settled or dismissed; others are pending.

In the "100 Miles" action, a District Court in Nashville granted a summary judgment to No Limit in October 2002 finding that the samples did not infringe the copyright.

The latest decision follows an appeal of the District Court ruling by Bridgeport and Westbound.

Prior to the new decision, most copyright practitioners viewed samples as subject to the same infringement standards as other copyrighted works. That is, copyright law only protects "original" creative works, and there is no unlawful infringement for copying a work unless a substantial portion of the work (in quantity or quality) is copied without permission.

While this opinion does not apply to the underlying musical composition since the court held that the song was licensed, it does set a new "test" for infringement cases involving samples of sound recordings.

"This appears to be a very broad ruling that may impact other cases involving samples," says Westbound's attorney, Richard Busch of King & Ballow in Nashville.

The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals considers cases in four states, including Tennessee. Courts in the other 11 circuits may or may not follow this ruling.

WHAT IS ORIGINAL?

First, the court held that merely recording sounds onto the master recording makes the sounds "original." Next, the court held that any sampling of sounds is an infringement of the sound recording copyright. Since it's unlawful to pirate the whole sound recording, the court reasoned, it's unlawful to sample less than the whole recording without permission.

"Get a license or do not sample," the court wrote. Further, the three-judge panel wrote, if the copyright holder refuses to license the sounds or demands too high a price, copyright law already permits a producer to record a duplicate "sound" with instruments in his own studio.

"This decision is wrong as a matter of law," one attorney says, reflecting the opinions of others who are familiar with the decision.

For hip-hop artists and producers, increasing the royalties they must share with others could have a significant impact on their bank accounts.

But it's not only about the money. Many hip-hop producers are not like traditional record producers who work in a studio and know how to mic-up the instruments and vocals, producer Hi-Tek says (right on picture). Instead, these hip-hop producers only know their own equipment and work in a small space. They rely on samples.

THE ART OF THE SAMPLE

"Sampling is so important. It's the foundation of rap and hip-hop," The Roots' co-manager Shawn Gee says. Early rappers like Grandmaster Flash and Sugarhill Gang rapped their rhymes over existing music; that was the art form. As hip-hop evolved, "samples became an instrument" to create new sounds, he says.

Hi-Tek explains, "To be a hot producer, you have to have an ear for a different vibe."

Samples inspire producers to create a new piece of music. Sometimes they use a sound like a snare or a kick drum that no one else may even notice in a recording. Part of their talent is the ability to find different sounds to sample. Restricting the use of samples, Hi-Tek says, is also "taking away the fun."

Is the appeals court decision a victory for labels and producers who own sound-recording rights? At first glance it appears so. On second glance it's a double-edged sword.

While the decision protects labels whose recordings are sampled, it can turn those companies into defendants if their releases include samples that they did not know about and did not license from the owners. All the major labels were among the original 800 defendants sued.

For the most part, labels prefer to err on the side of caution. Ian Allen, director of sample clearance at Island Def Jam, has licensed thousands of samples in his 10 years with the company.

"My standard rule of thumb is that a sample that brings to mind the song must be cleared," he says. "Any recording of more than a note, you really have to consider licensing the sound recording."

In the case of "100 Miles," N.W.A originally had revealed the presence of the sample but sought only a synch license for the composition.

However, it is sometimes part of a producer's mystique not to reveal the use of a sample.

Cam'ron says, "I work with any producer that brings me a hot beat, but you don't always know if it's a sample."

Like most artists, Cam'ron focuses on the music first and worries about getting the rights to use the samples afterward. But problems with getting these rights affected his selection of one producer recently. Since his label was unable to clear a sample the producer used on a previous track, this "bad luck" made him pass on using that producer again.

While producers like Hi-Tek don't believe the court's ruling will have much affect on their work, some business managers disagree.

The decision will have "no impact on creative producers until they're hit with their first lawsuit," Gee says. That is when they'll feel it in their pockets.

With all the bootlegging and piracy that is affecting the industry, it is no surprise to Damon Dash that companies are going to court to collect on samples. As co-founder of Roc-a-Fella Records with Jay-Z, he believes that using samples is an art form. If there are restrictions on their use, however, then producers have to "step up to the game" and become more creative without using samples. "I look for hit records," Dash says, with or without samples.

Meanwhile, the "100 Miles" case has been remanded to the District Court for further proceedings, including a decision of possible damages.

No Limit Films could also seek a reconsideration of the decision or a review by the U.S. Supreme Court. "We've just received the opinion and are conferring with our client to decide what action to take," says attorney Bob Sullivan of Loeb & Loeb in Nashville.
 

Deca

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
man were losing this sampling fight straight up now
 

Fury

W.W.F.D
ill o.g.
i believe hip hop wud still exist witout sampling..cuz i dont sample usually when i make beats but without sampling hip hop wudnt be as recognized and as hot cuz witout sampling u wudnt have ppl like Premo and Rza usin samples makin classic records...nuttin is like when we hear premo chop samples up or Rza sampling vocals to make the classic Wu-tang joints...it wudnt be the same but still existant..
 

x-squizet

Roll Tide Roll
ill o.g.
i think it hip-hop could still make it, that will show that we can be muscians and beat makers, right now, people think hip hop is trash, we don't make music we take other peoples music, thats how the world see it, don't get me wrong when hip hop first started it needed sampling, but now alot of producers are using sythns rather than sampling and if they want the sample feel, just play out your on shit, then sample it and chop it up how you want and shit, but i know what yall will say "it won't seem like the real thing" but thats my 2 cents

X,
 

bigdmakintrax

BeatKreatoR
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 123
Look back over the years......making hit records that are hip hop without samples has always been possible this is nothing new....I love people that sample.....but Like I said they have much less effort to put something together than if their idea is coming from absolutely nothing......I find sampling to be dope, but I am more impressed with people that can either sample one shots or maybe 2 second pieces or just put together a completely original song either played out or resample riffs that they played.......that to me is more impressive even though I love to hear some dope sampled music its great to hear an old hit but if about 90% of the song is the same loop and you haven't done too much that to me is plain and simple unadulterated laziness to sit there and claim to be a producer my little sister can do that much there is something not that impressive about doing something like that and then being labeled a dope producer...a lot will disagree but thats How I see it....do something completely different with that song and make it sound different.....but like they said people sample to capture a mood of a record and then put it to a hip hop backdrop for an MC....I posted an article up on this a few days after these rulings were made, but this rule just extends clearance to everything......including Kicks and snares but we know that it will be like a needle in a haystack if you mix the kick or alter it.......
 

classic

I am proud to be southern
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 90
bigdmakintrax said:
I love to hear some dope sampled music its great to hear an old hit but if about 90% of the song is the same loop and you haven't done too much that to me is plain and simple unadulterated laziness to sit there and claim to be a producer my little sister can do that much there is something not that impressive about doing something like that and then being labeled a dope producer.....

Man D thats some of the realist stuff ive heard from you.

I think the only people who are worred about this are producers that just loop etc..... If your a true producer u will find ways around this, either by chopping your samples more or other means. YOu just got to adapt.

class....
 

bigdmakintrax

BeatKreatoR
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 123
Now don't get me wrong we know a lot of old school production is looped but they did do a lot more in the way of changeups....but theres a bunch of songs, like the save our souls loop Jigga used for that song (I can't remember the name) but it was issaac hayes and a bohannon loop and some of the biggie and Puffy's stuff that if you go back and listen they didn't even add drums they just equ'd the loop and thats it......now some of the legends even did that but they had a lot more skills to flip the sample add cuts....even premo...I mean you listen to him there is lot of changeups and pure turtablism in his beats...I hear a lot of people saying he don't switch it up...he well compensates for that with his DJ skillz because after all thats what he is besides a producer and a master DJ at that.....etc......so don't read too much into that....I see producers just on the scene that just settle for producing like that with just a loop and don't change it up or add anything to it.....I got production using sample in all kinds of crazy ways or just use instruments.
 

macthedoulos

Beatmaker
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 2
i agree. hip hop probably wouldn't die. the versatile kats would adapt. others would fall off. hip hop evolves.
 
H

hanayalator

Guest
Ya it'll totally still be around. The samples that are cleared will still be there, and more groups like The Roots will hopefully get recognized.
 

illusion

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
i think that without sampling hip hop beats wont be the same. sampling makes it a good beat unless your a musician and know how to use instruments yourself. i heard that its ok to samples something that is over 70 years old, then you cant get done for it.
 

Producer X

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Hip Hop will never die. Samples or no samples. And if you must sample, Just clear it.

1
X
 
P

PI$ToLPETE

Guest
your whilen rite now.

Beatz 101 said:
i think if sampling was no longer used in hiphop, hiphop would die offically.

sampling is something dat cant be excluded or replaced.

Yo if there is no more samplin then there's no more samplin. Hip-Hop an't dyin 4 nuthin. There's more to Hip-Hop then beats. It's how we walk,It's how we talk, How we dance.Even if they try 2 take all beats away we jus gonna be in da lunch-room beatin on table's wit a recorda in spittin. If they stop dat e go acapella. Hip-Hop aint goin nowwhere.
 

illusion

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
your right ................most of my beat are sampled....the ones that aint are kinda wack, but then thats just me.....i cant creat melodies for ish. hip hop will live forever!

payce!
 

Equelizer

BEAT HEAD LOCKER
ill o.g.
you damn right...

Holmzini said:
yes it can.... alot of non-versatile producers will be assed out tho!!!!

seem like now a days that is all cats be doing. a lot of niggas will be forced to be creative. a lot of niggas won't be quitting their day jobs. niggas need to step up and do they own shit.
 

O-H-TEN

aka Tha' NVZABLE DRAGON
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
I think that if sampling was taken away; then it would put a cramp in the art of digging. What would be the use? I guess you could do interpolations of grooves but that's about it. It would be a sad day but Hip Hop as a whole will survive no matter what they do. It could possibly push Hip Hop back to the underground. Which would not be a bad thing in my mind.
ONE
 

Equelizer

BEAT HEAD LOCKER
ill o.g.
bigdmakintrax said:
Look back over the years......making hit records that are hip hop without samples has always been possible this is nothing new....I love people that sample.....but Like I said they have much less effort to put something together than if their idea is coming from absolutely nothing......I find sampling to be dope, but I am more impressed with people that can either sample one shots or maybe 2 second pieces or just put together a completely original song either played out or resample riffs that they played.......that to me is more impressive even though I love to hear some dope sampled music its great to hear an old hit but if about 90% of the song is the same loop and you haven't done too much that to me is plain and simple unadulterated laziness to sit there and claim to be a producer my little sister can do that much there is something not that impressive about doing something like that and then being labeled a dope producer...a lot will disagree but thats How I see it....do something completely different with that song and make it sound different.....but like they said people sample to capture a mood of a record and then put it to a hip hop backdrop for an MC....I posted an article up on this a few days after these rulings were made, but this rule just extends clearance to everything......including Kicks and snares but we know that it will be like a needle in a haystack if you mix the kick or alter it.......

thats is what I am talking about. Nuff said. Sampling is good, but how many real producers do we have out there?
 
Top