do we know what we are getting into

[StressWon]

Try buildin yer shit on the Indy Tip then and maybe you will still keep your dignity while being proudly involved in music the way u plan to be?
It cant hurt right?......I mean, being indy obviuosly is not a golden ticket to all that 'big fortune and fame' u see people rollin in on cribs, but you have a prominant chance to still succeed and at least pay the bills and survive.

word Steezo. Plus all that "flossin" is bullshit anyway. The jewelery, cars, houses, etc. RENTED. Dont get that shit twisted. Producers do make more money in certain aspects. But for every emcee there's 5 Producers. I say Class....start indy, get some burn while you work the 9-5 job,,,and then when the time comes to you gettin some real shine,,,,start a production company. Thats where the dough is at. It's all baby steps man.

 

[pancakebunnny]

This is fascinating... everyone's perspective on this. Everyone seems to have so much to say on this topic.








BUT

You forgot to realize something. All of the producers that have ever inspired me, from RZA to DJ Premier to Ali Shaheed Muhammad to Prince Paul to Pete Rock to No I.D. to Chief Xcel to El Producto to Butterfly to David Axlerod.... They have immense underground credibility (whatever the fuck that is... is it like Visa or Discover???) .... They've created timeless classic material that gives a Rue to today's gumbo of hip hop.... They've made a few dollars.... some have spawned countless spin-offs and penis-saddlers, but that's where it stopped. RZA's days of eternal glory have turned out to be not so eternal, due to his inability to handle internal conflicts of what genre to cater to. Premier has mastered his craft, and never touched outside of that. He is the shoemaker in the little village that can outmake ANY other shoe out there... but only in one particular style of shoe. Ali Shaheed has continued on his mission to blaze new musical pathways consistently, but with little/no recognition. My point is, everyone has their own individual story. The sad thing is, no one knows of THEIR stories. The Swizz Beats and Many Mannie Freshes and KLC's and Beats by the Pounds and etc etc etc.... EVERYONE knows of them. They've immortalized themselves through sheer numbers.

You can either give 100% to a hundred people, or give 10% to ten thousand people. Either way you're sacrificing something. Is this music industry your ticket to money? eternal fame? innovative concepts? credibility? the music itself?

You have to find a balance, something which I personally believe NO producer has done yet. It's so strange, having a conceptual line that is so broad. Usually the line is extremely thin... (love/hate). The line between "Real" (whatever) and "Commercial" (whatever V2.0) is separated by this HUGE chasm that can only be filled by people willing to sacrifice their names TODAY, in hopes of staking their claim at the source of the movement... which may not happen until decades.

Either its instant gratification, or long term impact. Do you want a "Halle Barry" or a "Claire Huxtable"? I know I sure as hell don't know... that journey in discovering is what gives you your source for creative material. Let that be your case of indigestion that gets you creating great shit, regardless of all of this credibility.


AH FUCK IT... I'M RAMBLING. I HAVEN'T SLEPT FOR ABOUT 3 DAYS, AND I'M LOADED WITH CAFFEINE AND PAIN MEDICINE. Take this rant for whatever you want, just give me a Reese's.

 

[iLLVA1]

sorry i dont agree...i dont think what you wear has anything to do with your skills.....it's two different things, and it's a stereotype. people always talking about bad stereotypes but thats all i'm seeing right now. if you got skills you got skills period. just cause you add some "ice" doesn't mean your skills all of a sudden aint there no more.

 

[Shonsteez]

Word. You can have skills and wear a fuckin Tire Iron, but i think cats are sick of the "Fakeness".

 

[classic]

sorry i dont agree...i dont think what you wear has anything to do with your skills.....it's two different things, and it's a stereotype. people always talking about bad stereotypes but thats all i'm seeing right now. if you got skills you got skills period. just cause you add some "ice" doesn't mean your skills all of a sudden aint there no more.

I have no problem with ice man, my moms loves nice jewelry

BUt to most of these cats ICE is the end goal, thats what i have a problem with, how many times can a cat say he has the niceist ICE around. It not really about the ICE at all its about these cats playing follow the leader

man these are some real good comments yall are dropping, im takin them all into account. Im really feeling what cold is saying but BIG D and format and dantson are droppin some jewls to. Im going to have a detailed reply to this in a couple of days.(im still in florida)


class....

 

[iLLVA1]

I have no problem with ice man, my moms loves nice jewelry

BUt to most of these cats ICE is the end goal, thats what i have a problem with, how many times can a cat say he has the niceist ICE around. It not really about the ICE at all illva, its about these cats playing follow the leader

man these are some real good comments yall are dropping, im takin them all into account. Im really feeling what cold is saying but BIG D and format and dantson are droppin some jewls to. Im going to have a detailed reply to this in a couple of days.(im still in florida)


class....

aight classic i feel you....i dont like when cats talk about ANYTHING too much or all the time. thats why them cash money cats were getting on my nerves when they came out because every song was bling bling, ice, money, cars. now i dont think its anything wrong with talking about any subject (well almost any subject) but when it comes to the point that its all you talk about, thats when there's a problem. i think cats need to expand and rap about many different subjects. and be able to switch they style up...that shows some skills to me.

 

[Rhythmikal]

class i like what you said about the source awards, its very true.

i think hip hop needs another Pac in the game and another... well actually the greatest producers are still working... (Preemo, Just Blaze etc)

so therefore hip hop needs a new Pac type figure to hook up with an all time great beat maker, and it'll be a breath of fresh air.

sAfE.

 

[erkl]

man if i could get money to do what i wanna do and make music n shit, i dont care what people would think of me, underground or whatever

i jus wanna get paid!

 

[StressWon]

never second judge somethin you have created next to money.

 

[O-H-TEN]

All this just leads to the fact that it's time for a change or a revolution in this part of the industry. I'll never hate on a cat who flaunts his bling, cars or whatever; 'cause alot of cats came up with nothing. I'm just tired of hearing about it. I think that a mc or artist just coming into the game should'nt even be allowed to say the word "ice" or "rolex" or "bentley" or even "platinum" untill they at least go gold! lol! Unfortunately the industry the thinks different. As long as people buy that shit they'll sell it.
Some of these cats walk into the game flossin' like they paid in the videos. When they're really at some one else's crib rented for the day. It's not necessarily all there fault. The industry paints that "icey" picture and either you conform or get sidelined. That's just what sells. The average broken down trodden Joe is watchin' that shit and dreamin' of his turn to try to grab that platinum iced out ring, that is really non existent. I think that you should have to get your grind on first & really pay your dues before you break out talkin' about what you got. Anyway, sooner or later things will change and the industry will have to find another way to exploit these artists and suck the blood out of them. I just hope that when it does change that it has to look back to the underground to stay afloat. Just getting into this game you can make your decisions on what you want to do or say before you sign. Once you sign it's a whole 'nother story. I've seen already first hand what a major label can do to you and how they can manipulate things. No matter how underground you think you are or are tryin' to be. It's not easy to make a multi million dollar company play your game. So do you think that your favorite underground producer or mc has what it takes to do that? I don't. That's why these are not the guys that are getting all the "ice".
ONE

 

[StressWon]

All this just leads to the fact that it's time for a change or a revolution in this part of the industry. I'll never hate on a cat who flaunts his bling, cars or whatever; 'cause alot of cats came up with nothing. I'm just tired of hearing about it. I think that a mc or artist just coming into the game should'nt even be allowed to say the word "ice" or "rolex" or "bentley" or even "platinum" untill they at least go gold! lol! Unfortunately the industry the thinks different. As long as people buy that shit they'll sell it.
Some of these cats walk into the game flossin' like they paid in the videos. When they're really at some one else's crib rented for the day. It's not necessarily all there fault. The industry paints that "icey" picture and either you conform or get sidelined. That's just what sells. The average broken down trodden Joe is watchin' that shit and dreamin' of his turn to try to grab that platinum iced out ring, that is really non existent. I think that you should have to get your grind on first & really pay your dues before you break out talkin' about what you got. Anyway, sooner or later things will change and the industry will have to find another way to exploit these artists and suck the blood out of them. I just hope that when it does change that it has to look back to the underground to stay afloat. Just getting into this game you can make your decisions on what you want to do or say before you sign. Once you sign it's a whole 'nother story. I've seen already first hand what a major label can do to you and how they can manipulate things. No matter how underground you think you are or are tryin' to be. It's not easy to make a multi million dollar company play your game. So do you think that your favorite underground producer or mc has what it takes to do that? I don't. That's why these are not the guys that are getting all the "ice".
ONE

Thats why you don't sign if the deal aint right. Its the fact of havin the actual will power to turn down fame and money for the true art of what you create. Its temptin and it aint so easy to turn it down, but then again, who wants to be a one hit wonder,,lol.

 

[SuPa'PrOduZa]

2 Cent...

Wadup ma'Nilh..

I can agree with most of what you guys are talkin about. Now, the truth is, 'HIP HOP' is a culture, right? And, let's face it, it 'really' is a reflection of what is in the 'heart' of many cats doin' this. Anyone here that preaches that they do not want the house, the cars, even treat themselves alittle to things they might not have had before , is straight up LYIN! Sure, it's great to talk humble when you ain't got it. And don't get me wrong, it's important to remain humble but Hip Hop is what it is. We don't have Kwame's walkin around in poke-a-dot shirts and gumby cuts smilin' happy-go lucky on streets anymore..[so I hope]. Everything today from technology to plain society is changing and is not the same. We need to make sure that in 'our' end as beatmakers and producers, we affect someone within the industry [rappers, producers & the like] with real skill, human approach and innovation. This is the best contribution that we as individuals can make. I know that I have done these things. I have been blessed off the fruit of my musical labor with alot, but what is important to me personally is that I affect someone positively with my production and songwriting. For example, someone will meet me, think that I'm the usual bling bling beatmaking dimwit until I open my mouth. I'm educated. This becomes evidently clear and cats look at me different @ this point. My eloquence, humility, success and my production give hope to these people as to the direction of where Hip Hop can go. While people are lookin at arrogant beatmakers like a surviving Kanye West and other limited dudes, someone can say that they 'met a humble even more talented and deserving person' in a studio [me].

Ma'nigas, noone is going to change 'HIP HOP.' HIP HOP will move towards a better direction when we're all mindful and collectively push this culture and it's music forward, making changes within us first.

Keep Bangin...
Supa

 

[O-H-TEN]

Thats why you don't sign if the deal aint right. Its the fact of havin the actual will power to turn down fame and money for the true art of what you create. Its temptin and it aint so easy to turn it down, but then again, who wants to be a one hit wonder,,lol.

I totally agree with that; but sometimes it's not the temptation of the bling that gets you locked into a bad contract. Just trying to get your foot in the door can be an even greater temptation. Some major labels use that also to suck you in. My situation went down kinda' like this: Major label was looking for new material & artists to create a new group. A&R came to us and asked if we would submit some tracks after one of our shows. We submitted a few beats. Label liked beats. Wanted us to produce some new ish with a kind of "Hip Pop" feel to it. Went to the table to arbitrate contractual obligations. Contract was re-written three times. In the meantime we were already in the major studio producing the track. Wrote all lyrics, arranged and produced the whole project ourselves. We were given a free hand in the whole process. We were only supervised by techs or whatever these cats were; from major label. (They did'nt seem to have a clue as to what was going on and kept trying to add rock & techno licks to the song.) Anyway; completed the project and my day job required me to go away for awhile. So everything was left over to partners to finish up. (contracts etc.)
To make a long story short; cats was hungry kids needed to eat. Major label gave ultimatum, they signed, the record went gold, we got dicked. We got peanuts while the label got the gold. It was our first offer from a major label. We thought it would be a good chance to finally get our foot in the door. It ended up being a nightmare. By the way; I forgot to mention that my two partners that came up with the lyrics for the song were supposed to perform the song also. But since they were trying to come up as "Hip Hop" artists; we decided against that. They were straight underground artists and to put their face on some "pop" ish would not be a good career move. So the major label hired some clowns to "milli vanilli" in the video in order for the project to go forward. Even after all of that went down; they had the nerve to approach us again for the second single. Well again we tried to barter a good contract with them and could'nt reach an agreement so this time we turned them down. They got somebody else to do the next single and the group flopped like wet pancakes. AAAHHHH!!! Sometimes revenge can be so sweet!LOL!!!
Since then everybody has kinda went their separate ways. We have yet to get another chance like that. The industry is tricky and it's easy for you to make mistakes if you are fresh on the scene.
ONE

 

[SuPa'PrOduZa]

Third Cent...

Thats why you don't sign if the deal aint right. Its the fact of havin the actual will power to turn down fame and money for the true art of what you create. Its temptin and it aint so easy to turn it down, but then again, who wants to be a one hit wonder,,lol.

Well, as long as the paper work with the companies are fair and in your favor and you become a one hit wonder, that is more money than you'll ever see up to that point. Hopefully once you have the ends you can make change in this industry with your own money. Then you'll have 'power.' It's difficult doing anything broke.

Supa

 

[O-H-TEN]

Amen to that SuPa'.

 

[StressWon]

Well, as long as the paper work with the companies are fair and in your favor and you become a one hit wonder, that is more money than you'll ever see up to that point. Hopefully once you have the ends you can make change in this industry with your own money. Then you'll have 'power.' It's difficult doing anything broke.

Supa

I feel you on that. I got mouths to feed and if I had to dye my hair Blonde, Call my self, "Skittles" and rhyme about how my Mom treated me poorly to put them thru college, Ide do it! It's a double standard. I had a chance at a deal with Epic in the early 90's. I'm not supposed to get specific.(?) But my group and I would of got dicked yet make more then I make now as a workin man, so it's actually pretty ruff to decide how to tackle this fucked up industry. Butm thanks for recognizin Hip Hop as a culture formost Supa,,,,thats real important!!! I like what ya sayin man. You obviously know ya shit man. Keep on homie.

 

[Formant024]

That's my personal point on this...I'd rather not when it comes to hiphop, I can sell out in many other genres, but not with hiphop.

 

[jaydub23510]

Look man I know 3 producers in the industry personally full time,(sorry I cannot tell you who they are) you have to be very, very good man, I have heard material from them that is soOOOOOOOOOOOO Good you would not believe it....that have had people noses turned up to it because its not what is needed for the project or it sounds too much like someone else...they want fresh original sounds....believe me when you have to go around with your beat CD, which is what they still use or have someone shopping it for them but more than likely its not going thru the chain like mines or your beat CD goes........one of them plays beats (lots of them too) at least 2 or 3 times a week at the label on the inside....it gets directly to someone that can go yeah we want that or no we don't bring us another CD tomorrow or next week, as one of the individuals has a staff consisting of his personal manager and someone else that is close to him, they have accountants and lawyers that decide what they can do and what are good and bad business moves...how much money they get after it is said and done....they take whatever projects and crumbs that come their way.......and I know you heard of Quid Pro Quo....a favor for a favor....people that have been on the inside are connected they get on projects that no one knows about a lot of times....then they compete with producers directly signed on the label full time....there are production companies with producers that get work but they aren't signed directly....insiders get work before anyone about 99% of the time what is funny I have heard people advertise on lots of places about opportunities I already heard about and they got all of the production they need and then some...they are usually very closely aligned with the A&R's.....knowing these people have helped me understand the process and how hard it really is and see them happy when they are told they can go buy new gear and trade it out...(hahaha thats how I am getting my new(slightly used) 48 channel mackie board)......one of them told me they Have NEVER used an A&R to get on a project and most A&R's do not have a fucken clue....also here is the other kicker all 3 live in and grew up in the GAMe in NY....so they close to the projects and understand their craft from the perspective of making money inside and out....I also know there are still soooo many of the old skool producers in the game on projects and involved that you would not even realize than what they print up in Scratch, Source and XXL....other than the fresh blood......in reality....there is not enough work for everyone........it took me a few years to realize the odds......I mean its not impossible but there are so many other people that do this full time for a check and they take just about every project that comes their way........there are these people that think that submitting beat CD to someone is going to really get them signed....that is possible but have you actually seen and A&R's desk or office....even a SMALL label has thousands of CD's of HOT ass beats..................I am not trying to discourage you or play devil's advocate but I done heard it from the horses mouth from niggaz whose shidd I consider FIRE.....they ain't hyped up or overly confident either........ my advice also is to continue to get artists.....just sitting around with a bunch of instrumentals is ok.....You need to fully produce.....get artists......get projects........finish projects and let people know who you are......make a local buzz.......keep grinding, no one ever gave me a contact or opportunity........the last 6 or 7 months has yielded more from my own grind than any other time.....I would go around to labels......find other producers and network......but here is more advice.....only network to a certain extent if you take this game seriously.......if you got an artist you think is hot enough try and sign them or your next thing could be slipping through your hands and the producer on the other side of town just helped them to be the next thing.....how do you do that?????? have enough fresh material and work on and complete projects.......my advice Class......stick with that Masters.........I been in the computer field for more than a few years with a college degree also and its hard out here man.......but my career and resume is well established I do this as my 2nd job and make money from production.......I am getting on projects only after years of hard work....not like a year or 2........that is possible but like I said you have to look at reality and see people that are in the game already.....but you raised the issue of having to work for some "Street Cats"......even with your masters Class in the real world you gonna come up against people with less education than you ........more than likely with more experience and mastery of corporate america that will be telling you what to do......that's real and you will see once you get out of college that smoke and mirrors exist there too....LOL........

I just read this whole post, and BIG D. you are on point man, Class get a good paying job in the computer field, fuck hip hop!!! You'll make far more money in computer science than you will selling beats!

 

[Producer_GyaL]

I just read this whole post, and BIG D. you are on point man, Class get a good paying job in the computer field, fuck hip hop!!! You'll make far more money in computer science than you will selling beats!

i hope you wont listen to that class...

 

[StressWon]

i hope you wont listen to that class...

Word, but technically he is right. Somewhat. If Class has a masters in Computer Science, after a few years gettin into the right company,,,he will be makin 120,000K EASY. Thats just after a few years. BUT, on the other hand, who says you can't do both?