I was wondering what the general concesus is....I'm always wondering how high I should get the levels on my finished tracks. I know I could L2 it to death to get it sounding radio loud, but I don't need or want that; but then, how high should one's levels actually be? Does it even matter that much? and finally (madd quest. i know, sry), if a track refuses to get as loud as the other tracks, is there a way to make it louder w/o sacrificing quality???
How Loud Is TOO Loud?
- Thread starter Doc Henny
- Start date
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Beat This!The Beat This! results are in, see what went down.
i'm mastering on Peak 4, and i know that normalizing can get me loud (thanks for the tip anyway! i appreciate it), but I'm talking about after you normalize once and you wanna boost the levels without it sounding over-compressed or limited....like through eq'ing correctly to preserve headroom, or multiband compression. I'm just wondering if there are better techniques with those than the ones I'm using with the L2 limiter on Peak
Haze47
THE URBAN ARCHEOLOGIST
ill o.g.
Doc Henny said:
well mate if you talking about indiuvidual levels IE the mix, that is completely up to you so long as nothing clips... YES THE LEVELS MATTER
for the finished track, you gotta get it as loud as fucking possible again, without clipping it out....YES THE LEVELS MATTER
this is achieved by...
1) a good mix with no sound clashes....
2) light compression over the whole track...
3) removing some low end freqs after compression, for example rolling the bass of a 60hz
4) Limiting/maximising at the end say limit and maxamise at -4db
Hypnotist
Ear Manipulator
ill o.g.
I know so many people who think they can just shortcut the mix and slam the compression from the start. I'll say this again and again and again: Make a mix FIRST before you put any limiting/compression on the stereo mix. What happens when you leave it on from the beginning is you raise the vocals and the vocals become what limits the mix, so then you raise the kick drum because you can't hear it anymore, so then you raise the guitars because now they're too thin, so now you start over and back off on the kick, but now everything else changes drastically when you do that.
That's just a start.
From there, you don't need much of a slamming compression afterward... just a L1 or L2 Ultramaximizer with maybe a -2 to -4 dB threshold.
Some people are stuck on always using between -4 and even -8 to -10 dB threshold in those L2's. I've used -6 dB as my most drastic, but never higher than that.
Too loud is when things start to sound "grainy" and "congested" when you're using too much compression. Too loud is when it just clips and pops and crackles because you go over zero (or +6 if you're still analog, but who is?) Too loud is when the radio is quiet compared to your mix.
That's just a start.
From there, you don't need much of a slamming compression afterward... just a L1 or L2 Ultramaximizer with maybe a -2 to -4 dB threshold.
Some people are stuck on always using between -4 and even -8 to -10 dB threshold in those L2's. I've used -6 dB as my most drastic, but never higher than that.
Too loud is when things start to sound "grainy" and "congested" when you're using too much compression. Too loud is when it just clips and pops and crackles because you go over zero (or +6 if you're still analog, but who is?) Too loud is when the radio is quiet compared to your mix.
All I can say is make the mix sound good. Don't worry about being the loudest. If your shit is too loud it can easily fatique(sp?) your ears. If the bass is too loud in a track it makes my ears hurt very quickly (within 30 seconds) when i listen in my truck. If this happens I wont listen to a track.
You shouldnt mix the track too loud. Because once you try to add a limiter or a compressor its gonna go to shit.
I should note that I have subs in my truck.
What I do as a starting point for my final mix is this..
Get the mix sound good peaking at roughly -8dB or so.
Then I run a 6 band EQ over the mix..
I roll off the lows below 40Hz
Cut 200Hz by 6dB with a Q of .90
Boost 350Hz by 6dB with a Q of .60
Boost 3292kHz by 3dB with a Q of 1.10
Boost 7885kHz by 6dB with a Q of .80
Boost 11986kHz by 6 dB with a Q of .54
Then I add a compressor..
I set the Ratio to 2.00
The attack to 3ms
The release to 300ms
Then I adjust the threshold until I acheive about -3dB gain reduction on the highest peaks.
I then adjust the gain by 3 or 4dB to make up for the gain reduction.
Then I put a limiter on with an auto attack/release
Set the ceiling to -.10dB
Then adjust the threshold until I acheive no more than -3dB
I use this as my starting point on most of my mixes because its very transparent and sometimes for MY mixes it only needs minor tweaking to suit the song.
This suits my style of mixing well. It might sound like ass if you copy this onto your mix. But I figured I'd give an example as it helps sometimes.
Mix on the lower side as once you add the mastering it will sound much better than if you mixed it too loud. For example, in my mixes the bass peaks at anywhere from -10dB to -20dB.
But once I add the final compression and limiting to the track it will bump real nice without giving you a headache.
Nothing is worse than a deep 808 kick that is mixed to -1dB in the mix and then compressed and limited with a total of about -10dB of reduction. Instant headache...
You shouldnt mix the track too loud. Because once you try to add a limiter or a compressor its gonna go to shit.
I should note that I have subs in my truck.
What I do as a starting point for my final mix is this..
Get the mix sound good peaking at roughly -8dB or so.
Then I run a 6 band EQ over the mix..
I roll off the lows below 40Hz
Cut 200Hz by 6dB with a Q of .90
Boost 350Hz by 6dB with a Q of .60
Boost 3292kHz by 3dB with a Q of 1.10
Boost 7885kHz by 6dB with a Q of .80
Boost 11986kHz by 6 dB with a Q of .54
Then I add a compressor..
I set the Ratio to 2.00
The attack to 3ms
The release to 300ms
Then I adjust the threshold until I acheive about -3dB gain reduction on the highest peaks.
I then adjust the gain by 3 or 4dB to make up for the gain reduction.
Then I put a limiter on with an auto attack/release
Set the ceiling to -.10dB
Then adjust the threshold until I acheive no more than -3dB
I use this as my starting point on most of my mixes because its very transparent and sometimes for MY mixes it only needs minor tweaking to suit the song.
This suits my style of mixing well. It might sound like ass if you copy this onto your mix. But I figured I'd give an example as it helps sometimes.
Mix on the lower side as once you add the mastering it will sound much better than if you mixed it too loud. For example, in my mixes the bass peaks at anywhere from -10dB to -20dB.
But once I add the final compression and limiting to the track it will bump real nice without giving you a headache.
Nothing is worse than a deep 808 kick that is mixed to -1dB in the mix and then compressed and limited with a total of about -10dB of reduction. Instant headache...
Have a look at multiband compressors. Waves has one, which you probably already have, if you have the L2. The one I use is C3 Multiband Compressor by SlimSlowSlider. Its free. http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slider/vst/
But be careful, and take your time to learn it, because you can definitely ruin your whole mix with it.
But be careful, and take your time to learn it, because you can definitely ruin your whole mix with it.
Formant024
Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
On a proper mix you wont even need an ultramaximizer, maybe your nearfields are telling you need such n such so on a bedroom techies set I suggest to use as less as possible and have a good look on your gainlevels. Set your gain on any insert channel as loud as possible with the faders up ( default ). Then start isolating the channels, monitoring them one by one.
Formant024
Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
only when mastering but nobody here does mastering here so what's the point of all the make up, send up dry files to a mastering studio and let them do the magic. Good clean signals, an ear for eq's makes a mix easy.