How much db variation from note to note until you begin to get into compression?
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There are so many different uses for compression but I cannot measure it in db and apply it as a rule.
I would compress any signal that doesn't sit well in the mix. So once the volume is set, if the volume drops or comes out momentarily, compression will be needed to fix that (e. g. for vocals, bass, guitars...).
If two things clash in terms of frequency and EQ won't completely solve this because they occupy the same part of the spectrum (typically kick and bass), I would use some sidechain compression.
It can also be used to glue two (or more) elements, to reshape the attack of a sound or to color a signal, to name but a few... and of course, on your master bus.
I would compress any signal that doesn't sit well in the mix. So once the volume is set, if the volume drops or comes out momentarily, compression will be needed to fix that (e. g. for vocals, bass, guitars...).
If two things clash in terms of frequency and EQ won't completely solve this because they occupy the same part of the spectrum (typically kick and bass), I would use some sidechain compression.
It can also be used to glue two (or more) elements, to reshape the attack of a sound or to color a signal, to name but a few... and of course, on your master bus.
LiveLargeBeats
ILLIEN
At what point did you guys start messing with things like compression? To me its all still a blurry chapter aswell..
And do you think as a beatmaker we should be doing things like compression, or leave it to the engineers?
I mean i get the part to make your beat sound great for demonstrating purposes or mp3 whatever..
but shouldnt we just stick to the creating process en leave the detailed tweaking to the masters in the studio? I feel like its two different worlds
And do you think as a beatmaker we should be doing things like compression, or leave it to the engineers?
I mean i get the part to make your beat sound great for demonstrating purposes or mp3 whatever..
but shouldnt we just stick to the creating process en leave the detailed tweaking to the masters in the studio? I feel like its two different worlds
What i understand from interviews of professional beatmakers is that the two worlds have collided and beatmakers must know these tools.
And compression can have a creative use also, mostly sidechaining stuff for that pumping effect.
Frankly, if you feel that your beat sounds good enough without compression, then don't use any.
But try and compare your beat against a reference that you like, you may find that it's not as loud as it could be even though it's peaking...
That's basically because you have very sharp transients that will clip once exported. But appart from these transients, the sounds are quite low. So compression is used to clip these transients nicely before they reach the master bus and clip your audio file, allowing you to bring the tracks levels up.
I started learning the mixing process when I started doing non-hiphop stuff... I was overusing it of course.
And compression can have a creative use also, mostly sidechaining stuff for that pumping effect.
Frankly, if you feel that your beat sounds good enough without compression, then don't use any.
But try and compare your beat against a reference that you like, you may find that it's not as loud as it could be even though it's peaking...
That's basically because you have very sharp transients that will clip once exported. But appart from these transients, the sounds are quite low. So compression is used to clip these transients nicely before they reach the master bus and clip your audio file, allowing you to bring the tracks levels up.
I started learning the mixing process when I started doing non-hiphop stuff... I was overusing it of course.
I use compression on virtually EVERYTHING.
If i have reverb on one of drum elements - I'll use compression on my drum bus to give me a pumping feel.
Most of my stuff is lo-fi/downtempo jazz-esque. Side chaining compression from the kick to bass and pad sounds definitely fits the aesthetic.
compression on most busses and master track to add that 'glue'.'
In the vein of a " beat" a consistent, uniform background music for vocals/lyrics - compression is essential and making sure your backdrop (supporting role to vocals) is consistent.
If i have reverb on one of drum elements - I'll use compression on my drum bus to give me a pumping feel.
Most of my stuff is lo-fi/downtempo jazz-esque. Side chaining compression from the kick to bass and pad sounds definitely fits the aesthetic.
compression on most busses and master track to add that 'glue'.'
In the vein of a " beat" a consistent, uniform background music for vocals/lyrics - compression is essential and making sure your backdrop (supporting role to vocals) is consistent.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
See I feel the opposite, music is so over compressed these days that it’s become fatiguing to listen to. So I try to use less and less. Jack Whites amazing record Blunderbuss was specifically mastered with no compression at all. My latest record that’s about to come out has minimal compression and I think it’s sonically my best one yet (in fairness I also had the best team I have ever had working on it) compression is a wonderful tool for many things, but that’s all it is. It can sure suck the life out of things when used wrong.
Also not to be nit picky but decibel isn’t actually a value it’s a variable in an equation and you need another reference point like sound pressure level. That’s why you see it written 12dbspl. Saying something is 7db is like saying “I can run seven” it’s just not enough information.
Also not to be nit picky but decibel isn’t actually a value it’s a variable in an equation and you need another reference point like sound pressure level. That’s why you see it written 12dbspl. Saying something is 7db is like saying “I can run seven” it’s just not enough information.
@YannFer and @thedreampolice have pretty much covered all the bases here
Do you have some sort of "order of operations"? I've always been under the idea that in regards to mixing; the first thing you do is adjust levels, then EQ, then whatever else after that. Is that wrong?
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Man that really just depends on the song and what is needed and what mixing style you have. I think in most rock/pop/hip hop songs the kick is the most important so I may spend quite a while working on tonal shaping of that with eq/compression or time based effects. Then I bring in the bass for a melodic and rhythm foundation. Then work on vocals with that foundation in place. But every song and every mix is different.
Ok, I'll tell you what I do most of the time (I'm talking only hiphop beats) :
I will low-pass and/or hi-pass and adjust the pre-gain on my tracks in the composition stage, on the go as I add elements to my beat. Once it's all there and I start mixing, my order of operation is :
- switch to mono and put my headphones on
- put all my faders down to - infinity
- bring my kick up to hit at - 12db
- then I bring the rest in, one at a time, in relation to the kick, in this order : snare/hihats/other drums/bass/background instruments /lead instruments/vocals
- if, when brought up, one of the track doesn't feel well I might use compression or another tool, depending on what the issue is : clashing frequencies with another track might be solved with eq, sidechain comp or dynamic eq. Volume peaks or drops wil need compression. I never use eq to boost a frequency. If that track lacks presence, I will use some kind of distortion.
- switch to stereo
- pan the "non-important" and "non-bassy" instruments left or right (up to 60%, never completely) to make room for important stuff in the center. If they drop because of phase issues when played on a mono system, it won't matter too much.
- put a mastering strip (with comp/limiter or maximizer,...) on your mixbus/master out (unless you're planning to have it mastered by someone else). I personally use Ozone. You need to keep in mind through the whole process that this last stage here is where your tracks all come alive together... you don't want to push them too hot until here, keep everything low.
I will adjust the tail and level of whatever reverb send I have, mainly lowering it to the point where you can feel it but not hear it.
... from there, I do a lot of tweaking with automations in order to adjust to each part of the song and give stuff dynamics and movement...
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
See this is a perfect example of how it’s different for everyone, everything @YannFer said is solid advice, but I would never in a million years but a limiter on my master bus as it doesn’t accomplish my goals of wide dynamic range. @YannFer has a different mixing priority then I do. Nothing wrong with that at all, but you have to know what you are going for up front.
Exactly. I was not describing what I do and apply as rules, but more what I end up doing 80% of the time.
Regarding the master bus, I don't have the proper listening setup to do mastering tasks. I use Ozone Mastering assistant and have to trust it, for lack of a better option. It often adds a limiter at the end of the chain.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
yes, and I always have my music mastered by someone else so I want the mix to breath quite a lot. We have totally different end goals, so there is no one right answer. It just depends on what you need to accomplish.
there is no right or wrong order, horses for courses, the "rules" are guidelines.
I like to gain stage and eq before moving onto compression, no point having unwanted frequencies affecting the compression.
When mixing hip hop, I will start with the kick and bass, using rbass to boost certain frequencies so that they both sound phat, and sidechain them. Then vocal if it has one, then I bring in the snare, throw an rvox on there and make it snappy and full, then everything else that will fit into the space left behind. Using panning, dynamic and complementary eq to carve space for sounds, I will also use compression if I need to make something cut through the mix more, reasonably slow attack and fast-ish release. All the while making sure that nothing peaks above 0db, especially the master bus.
There is also the matter of taste of the person doing the mix, mixing has a creative aspect to it which like producers, mixing engineers have their "style".
My master chain has an FL EQ2, sometimes a C4 or C6 multiband compressor, Kramer tape saturation, L1+ Ultramaximizer, and finally SPAN or WLM plus to check levels.
I like to gain stage and eq before moving onto compression, no point having unwanted frequencies affecting the compression.
When mixing hip hop, I will start with the kick and bass, using rbass to boost certain frequencies so that they both sound phat, and sidechain them. Then vocal if it has one, then I bring in the snare, throw an rvox on there and make it snappy and full, then everything else that will fit into the space left behind. Using panning, dynamic and complementary eq to carve space for sounds, I will also use compression if I need to make something cut through the mix more, reasonably slow attack and fast-ish release. All the while making sure that nothing peaks above 0db, especially the master bus.
There is also the matter of taste of the person doing the mix, mixing has a creative aspect to it which like producers, mixing engineers have their "style".
My master chain has an FL EQ2, sometimes a C4 or C6 multiband compressor, Kramer tape saturation, L1+ Ultramaximizer, and finally SPAN or WLM plus to check levels.
Great posts ITT and exactly the kind of knowledge I'm looking for. Obviously I know there's never a 'one-size-fits-all' solution when it comes to making beats. Just wanting somewhat of a little direction, help filling in the gaps in my knowledge. On the mixing end I've never been trained, or had a mentor or even really been in a studio much. So everything I've learned is just really a mashup of a little of this, a little of that, trial and error, etc. but by no means complete or comprehensive.
