I hate to say it, but why do people want it so easy!?

DJ Hoppa

Broken Complex Records
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 50
my point is, when you sample something old, something original, you are taking a different form of music and making it your own... transforming classic rock, classical, jazz, and tribal ethnic congas together to make some good ol HIP HOP.

When you sample hip hop to make hip hop, you're making SHIT BITER HOP.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
I really don't care who steals what or who jacks what, a lotta producers who live off digging and sampling have certain ethics about jacking a producer's style and what not,
and that's all good, but it's no need to be mad about it, it's part of the game.
Yeah, thats a good point. And if i came across mad angry about it then i guess that deserves a "my bad". If anything, this thread had made me realize a bit that being bent about something like that isnt worth it entirely, but it still makes me irritated to see people just not even caring, but of course - thats just me.
 

DJ Hoppa

Broken Complex Records
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 50
DueceMade Ent. said:
Yeah, thats a good point. And if i came across mad angry about it then i guess that deserves a "my bad". If anything, this thread had made me realize a bit that being bent about something like that isnt worth it entirely, but it still makes me irritated to see people just not even caring, but of course - thats just me.



Well, I wouldn't be mad, persay, but I would definitely lose respect for anyone that does that shit...


It's straight wack yo!

Quit being a biter!
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
LOL...Im gonna play it neutral becuase i got all heated earlier and im tryin to revert my anger now...What did the group all say in "anger mangement"?...lol, it was some funny shit but i forgot!?...

* Oh yeah! - "Goose-Fraba, Goose-Fraba"......LOL
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
DJ Hoppa said:
Ok Truth, check out my whole new catalogue of beats.


They are exactly like the beats on your album, except I sampled them off you and put a different hi hat on em. Oh, and a lil reverb. Im so creative. Same goes for every cat on Illmuzik. I just took ALL your beats, well, i didnt take em, I sampled them. Sorry guys, I now have a catalog of over 2000 beats! And I'm going to sell them all.






a little extreme, yet this is what you are saying is Ok.

Im just sampling!!!


isnt that what sampling is though? hat you described is every pete rock album, every gangstar album, except they pull from a variety of sources instead of one source. what i am saying here, is that sampling from hip hop is no differnet from sampling what was originally sampled- except you sampled the flipped version.

so its ok for you to jack somebody elses work- but it isnt ok for someone else to jack your work?

hell, if you wanted to remix my album, i'd be more then happy to let you. it'd be a dope look imo. seriously, now selling it without compensating me would be different....

we're talking about drums though; im sayin that sampling a drum hit from a hip hop producer is no different from the producer sampling the original recording- and the whole argument of the producer going through the trouble of finding it holds no water to me, because they are both jacking someone elses work and that can not be escaped. if one is ok, both have to be.

sooooooooo...... its ok for hip hop to steal from everywhere else, but hip hop cant steal from itself? now you understand why so many artists were fighting against sampling in the 80's- what you are saying is precisely what they were saying about hip hop sampling them, and now hip hop artsist are being sampled themselves and they dont like it?
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
what i am saying here, is that sampling from hip hop is no differnet from sampling what was originally sampled- except you sampled the flipped version.
Honestly Truth i see what yer sayin and i agree - i seriously do....FOr me its like other cats pointed out tho, its on some personal ethics shit, the shit i was tryin to describe earlier. It honestly just rubbs me the wrong way. I just think its wack basically.

sooooooooo...... its ok for hip hop to steal from everywhere else, but hip hop cant steal from itself? now you understand why so many artists were fighting against sampling in the 80's- what you are saying is precisely what they were saying about hip hop sampling them, and now hip hop artsist are being sampled themselves and they dont like it?
Yeah but yer talkin bout the stealin part of ALL this still!....Im lookin beyond that because i think its pretty apparent that its stealing already,....I just think if your gonna steal at least care about how u still - you dig?....Thats all.
 

DJ Hoppa

Broken Complex Records
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 50
Cold Truth said:
sooooooooo...... its ok for hip hop to steal from everywhere else, but hip hop cant steal from itself?

Hahaha, it may sound weird to you, but I think that's exactly it.

I'm trying to create a new sound, using a variety of outside sources...

Like in my job, I make porn box covers.

For a lot of elements in my covers, I go digging - except I dig for images, using google.

Just like digging for records.

Then I put together all these cool different bits and pieces to make a full composition, and make my porno box.

But, if I were to just take another porn's theme, look, and elements, I wouldn't be bringing anything new to the look, I'd be biting what's already been done and using the same elements...

Truth, I don't criticize you for taking the drum hits, that's fine...

except I would never do it, and I'm just trying to explain why.

Like I said, whatever sounds best, right?
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
hey, its all good...... its fine to disagree...

see, i also have the pespective of somebody who doesnt sample, so that does play a role here- iso that does have an effect.
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
oh i know- i was sayin....... this is abuot sampling drums that other dudes used or whatever, and i dont sample at all except for an occasional drum hit, so that colors my perspective on the issue.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
Shit....Ok....This thread wasnt soley about just samplin other produers drums tho. Thats just one part I wanted to include since it was pertinant to the topic. This was about EVERYTHING a beatmaker SAMPLES, [including drums] to make their own compositions outa samples regaurdless of whether sampling is stealing in the first place.
 

joeburnem

Beat Enthusiast
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 100
Listen to to Ghostface on the Cuban Link CD.

Shark Niggas bite your shit before you get to have any go with it. It's like they lurk in the shadows and wait for you to come up with something trendy for them. Those are the cats that will have your shit in Soundforge or Cool Edit after listening to your soundclick page.
 

dj360_iNfInItE1

UNDeRGROUND STaTE of MiND
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 16
I understand both views on this issue.

First, hip-hop purests believe that sampling from the original source is okay but not from other hip-hop artists.

Second, sampling is sampling, no matter where the material comes from.

Now, if you are talking about jacking "sounds" as in drums or a note or something other than a pattern, what the hell difference does it make where you get it if you are making something different? But, if you rip a 4 or 8 bar measure from a hip-hop record, LMAO, that's booty as hell. As a matter of fact, jacking straight loops from old records is getting played anyway. The thing is to flip the sample and make it different than it originally was and then compose something with that to even further distance it from the original source.

But..............................with all that said, if you are going to sample, no matter in what form that you do it, you have no right to get upset when someone samples your shit. That is totally hypocritical. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell ya. Any audio recording, broadcast, etc is subject to sampling. Whether you like it or not. Even those who stream their beats to keep people from stealing their shit aren't safe. You can sample that by piping the output to a sampler or recorder and voila, stolen. Anyway, I understand that you shouldn't swipe a hip-hop loop and claim you made a hot joint cause you didn't. But if you are just sampling sounds then what the fuck difference does it make? As long as you make your own beat with it, who gives a fuck? I know I could give 2 shits if someone stole a phat snare that I tweaked and freaked. Just says to me that I did a good enough job for someone to want to jack my shit. That's just me though. My 2 cents. Peace!
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
Now, if you are talking about jacking "sounds" as in drums or a note or something other than a pattern, what the hell difference does it make where you get it if you are making something different?
Now if want to touch on the drum issue....Yeah yer right. But, thats when things get particular and you have to recognize this is my personal view on sampling, not everyone elses in the entire world or somethin, but anyways....So u do sample a drum hit. OK. Well whats the drum sound like? Is it some shit that i wouldnt be able to identify automatically, like "some ordinary sounds off a sample disc or a drum machine", or is it just something that could be anywhere?...Cuz i mean, theres all kinds a little shit that comes into play like that. Or say i took the snare from shynes beat and you would automatically notice it cuz it was distinct, or say i sampled a whole kit of sounds outa Blood Sweat and Tears...I guarentee that that kit sounds nothin like 90% percent of the drum tracks you here nowadays, hence making it an original sounding lift from a record. Now if i went and sampled that too just like the shyne snare, to me - that shits mad recognizeable cuz someone else already made that sound significant in a way that the original source didnt even use it. That in comparison with just some ordinary sound that is in like any fucking rap song any day is a whole nuther story to me, even if u did lift it somewhere cuz where the originallity??? Thats the point dog.

if you are going to sample, no matter in what form that you do it, you have no right to get upset when someone samples your shit.
Yo I was never was even talkin bout being mad at cats for samplin my shit, but as the story goes....I obviously got my own rule-set that everyone officially hates me for now on Ill, and thats fine....But if I have someone sample me, that can be fine and then it can be very fucking homosexual at the same time. Why???....Thats simple....All sources are different, theres tons a shit out there thats not just samples cut by the original beat maker, ..........theres sample cd's, stock kits, and a slew of others that are just nonnsense to get bent about becuase mad people already have that shit at there fingertips.

SO....If it were, say my BST kit that i carefully cut myself and set to my liking and used in a beat of mine, and then another beatmaker sampled my kick, or whatever it is - i wouldnt have a fit about it, but I definitely would feel that your a wack beatmaker for not gettin the "special" sounds yerself....Its all particular. I mean, if it was a Lil Jon kick its just not the same....all that guy uses is 808s...theres not a special attachement to those sounds, they come with the drum machine for fucks sake!

But thats why i tell cats that ima "music dick", cuz im mad particular about my likes and dislikes.

And thats just me, i mean, seems like its a 50/50 ballpark here so i cant call it...and these are just my views expressed through me, but learned from older shit that taught me that way.....Im not one to say its right, but i also just dont respect it if it aint ORIGINAL....I mean, we could go in circles about orginality cuz samples are this and that, and your already unorignal to alota beatmakers that dont sample cuz you arent writin yer own shit, but whats the point of goin beyond the initial idea of the thread?

If anything, i totally admit whole heartedly that in the end it really doesnt matter, someones gonna sample u anyways....But that dont mean i should loose my ethics for sampling all over that!....Im still gonna personnaly put in the work that the original producer did to get to a equal platough. Like i said, i just dont feel its the same.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
Dam for real tho, fuck this topic.........lol...........i wish i never started it now, i feel like were all goin in circles now so maybe it was a raw deal in the first place?.......Initially, it sounded like a great thing to discuss, now its just retarded.

And i "hate to say it", lol......But i kinda acted like a buster too so my bad. I think i even wrote circles around myself on that last one and thats what made me realize that this is a big mess not worth arguin over.

So my bad to eveyone. I suppose i basically took it too far?

I Tend to be real hardcore when i wanna make my point sometimes and thats when i usually need to reflect on myself and chill for a bit and just relax. lol.....

But yo, my bad for takin it too far - that was gay.

On a brighter note - I see both sides a lot better now so it wasnt a total loss.
:)
 

dj360_iNfInItE1

UNDeRGROUND STaTE of MiND
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 16
^^
I admire you for sticking to your ethics and I am feeling you a little bit. I am not saying what you are saying is wrong. I admit, to actually dig and find a drum kit and eq it the way you like is mad time consuming and a labor of love and ethically, maybe noone "should" sample your kit. What I am saying is that the same thing was done back when they made the original song. I am sure the drummer and/or the engineer eq'd and compressed the drums specifically the way they wanted them to sound on the record. The drums probably didn't sound the way they would when the set was played live. And that's my point. Sampling "can" be an art form but in the end it is just that, sampling. For producers that sample, I think it is totally arrogant for them to think that just because they went through the trouble of changing the way a snare hits are a kick drum pounds, it is beyond the realm of sampling ethics. I am trying my hardest to empathize with you but I just can't do it, man. We as hip hop producers who do sample should be the last ones to complain about someone else doing it. Besides the fact, the reason you can't get sued for sampling a "sound" is because sounds are not eligible for copyright protection. Except for someone's voice or likeness. So, to get irratated by it or to say someone is wack because they jack drums from all over the place is a wasted emotion. There has been no mandate to even validate this so-called unethical sampling of sounds. If I remember correctly, back when sampling was in it's infancy, musician purists thought cats like us were untalented, musical thieves who didn't deserve to be called musicians in the first place because of sampling. So, I guess it's a vicious circle. What goes around, comes around and there is nothing anything any of us can do about it. Not that I would want to anyway. But, you see my point I hope.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
Yeah man i see yer point, and it is vicous cirlce that i particularly got sucked into myself. And i admit i acted kinda lame for a bit but i think i see the light now, i made waaaay too big of a deal about it in the first place. :(

I took my paxil or whatever it is and im ok now....lol...jus playin.
 

dj360_iNfInItE1

UNDeRGROUND STaTE of MiND
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 16
DueceMade Ent. said:
I took my paxil or whatever it is and im ok now....lol...jus playin.

LMAO! Naw man. I don't think you played yourself. You are just passionate about your craft and I admire that. Especially when I see a younger cat displaying his passion. Don't feel bad homie. You have the right to feel how you feel, it's called freedom. Peace, brotha!
 
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