Mixing Mystery?!

O

open mind

Guest
ok iam fucking a lot with midi sequencing and vst instruments my regular method is eqing,compressing,fx,mixing,etc right from the spot without TRACKING THE MIDI FILES.the mix i get from that iam satisfied but i thought i can do better now here comes the BIG MYSTERY:


today i wanted to try something new and Tracked out all my midi channels into seperated wave files WITHOUT eqing,mixing,processing fx compres,etc.them.after having all the seperated tracks i put the wave files back and mixed them instead of the midifiles and guess what? the mix was superb now the big question

WHY IS THAT? i thought its not a big deal mixing midi before converting in wave files.but i was dead wrong.anyone have same experiences?
 

sYgMa

Making head bangers!!!
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...let me get that right... you where mixing your midi files? what program do you use?
 

breal

Member
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If you are using alot of vst's plugins many of the preset are load with efx anyway.
So when you trackout dry they will still sound all rite.
But I still think your have to do some tweeting.
 
O

open mind

Guest
@sygma
i use MULTIPLE OUTPUTS from VSTs this allows me to MIX the midi outputs.
 

sYgMa

Making head bangers!!!
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 26
ok... I know it's knit picking, but you cant mix midi files.

Midi files = info (like pitch, lenght of the note, etc...)
Midi files is not sound... so it CAN'T be mixed.

I'm guessing you where mixing directly in the program that hosts the plugins you are using, so what is that host? FL? Cubase? Logic?...

And also, I know that, when you mix in a host, the computer has more job to do. He has to read the "midi" you feed it, sends the info to the vst, the vst gives out the sound, and then the effects can be sent to other plugins to be processed (compression, EQ, etc...) all that processing has an effect on the sound quality. Formant could probably go futher than me on that subject, but that's the bascis...

When you mix wav files in a program like Protools (or any other "mixing program"), there is less processing and the sound you hear in the program is closer to the final sound, after rendering the song as a whole...
 
O

open mind

Guest
sYgMa said:
ok... I know it's knit picking, but you cant mix midi files.

Midi files = info (like pitch, lenght of the note, etc...)
Midi files is not sound... so it CAN'T be mixed.

I'm guessing you where mixing directly in the program that hosts the plugins you are using, so what is that host? FL? Cubase? Logic?...

And also, I know that, when you mix in a host, the computer has more job to do. He has to read the "midi" you feed it, sends the info to the vst, the vst gives out the sound, and then the effects can be sent to other plugins to be processed (compression, EQ, etc...) all that processing has an effect on the sound quality. Formant could probably go futher than me on that subject, but that's the bascis...

When you mix wav files in a program like Protools (or any other "mixing program"), there is less processing and the sound you hear in the program is closer to the final sound, after rendering the song as a whole...
AGAIN I TRY TO BE CLEARER.

I KNOW I CANT MIX MIDI FILES BECAUSE MIDI IS JUST DATA NO AUDIO BUT I CAN MIX THE OUTPUTS FROM THE MIDI FILES I CAN ROUTE THE AUDIO FROM THE MIDI FILES TROUGH MULTIPLE OUTPUTS FROM THE VST INSTRUMENT THIS ALLOWS ME TO MIX THE CHANNELS


host is fl studio.
 

sYgMa

Making head bangers!!!
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 26
.... ok, wow!

But I did answer your question, partially, right.

And I did say that I was knit picking. By that, I meant to say that I knew that you probably didn't mix the midi files (it was just a vocab error that I corrected)
 
O

open mind

Guest
sYgMa said:
.... ok, wow!

But I did answer your question, partially, right.

And I did say that I was knit picking. By that, I meant to say that I knew that you probably didn't mix the midi files (it was just a vocab error that I corrected)
ok its all good yeah i see the point u mentioned but i guess iam going to stop trackin them out and mix them like i did before its ok to do if u got only 10 channels or sumtin to track em out but what u gonna do if u got a huge project with more then 50 channels? tracking them out? NO NO! i guess i need a stronger CPU i got 2.8ghz now and 512mb ram only. iam gonna update to 1gb or even 2gb ram and maybe a new cpu about the 3.5 ghz. cheers!
 
O

open mind

Guest
can i have some more input?

how do u process your music. u do first arrangment, midi,vsts, and whatnot and then export all tracks to wave form to mix and master it,or do u guys mix and master right from the spot with the vst running in the back?
 

sYgMa

Making head bangers!!!
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 26
50 channels? Whoa! You're doing a synphony or something... that's kind of a lot, man!!! But actually, you are right... you should track them out... that's the best way to do it, unfortunately!
 

Sanova

Guess Who's Back
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word.. i just got into tracking out my beats to mix them. I never did it before cuz im only posting them on the net so who cares. if someone purchased.. then track out. but anyway fuckin wit sonar 6, all my SUPER VST's eat up alotta CPU power.. so i use Freeze to bounce down to wave etc..
 
O

open mind

Guest
yeah i heard about that freezing stuff what it actualy does?
 

Sanova

Guess Who's Back
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Battle Points: 9
this is my first time using it... but apparently, just click freeze synth on the track u wanna bounce to wav. and it... bounces it to wav (aka tracking it out or exporting it as wav and importing it back into the session). its especially kool to do it with rewire so u can have all ur tracks tracked out in ur host sequencer.
 
O

open mind

Guest
Sanova said:
this is my first time using it... but apparently, just click freeze synth on the track u wanna bounce to wav. and it... bounces it to wav (aka tracking it out or exporting it as wav and importing it back into the session). its especially kool to do it with rewire so u can have all ur tracks tracked out in ur host sequencer.
WOW THIS FEATURE IS KILLA! save lots of work and time and CPU and my nerves :)
 

Hypnotist

Ear Manipulator
*** ill o.g. ***
You technically CAN mix in midi, but it's just extra processing. Think about it: Regardless if it's audio or midi that plays your music, it's still being converted into sound waves to get to your ears. Some software, FL being one, takes the final step and allows you to put your plugs on the midi channel rather than the audio channel. Technically it's the same bunch of oranges if you ask me, where the only difference lies in the software that you're using, its ability to process the audio signal, the algorithms in the plugins, and obviously the amount of control you have in midi.

Now the difference lies in your "resolution" of values that you can assign to a particular sound. In midi, with every single option, you only have 127 values that you can assign. In Pro Tools, using the faders, you have MUCH more than that. Just think about the range of values you have between 0dB and 12dB. (120) Then 0dB to - infinity. That's a lot of headroom, and that's just level. Panning, 100 values on each side = 200. Midi = 127. Looks like audio software can do much more.

Also when you export everything into wav files, you're creating a new "raw" format to work with. Meaning you kinda start from scratch with levels again and "redraw" your beat. Just taking this step is huge in the mixing process. Everything I mix comes out so much better than the first rough mix. I could be making a beat for hours with my initial setup, and the kick drum (since I used it first in one particular case) will never change in level the whole time. I might adjust it up or down through the rough mix from time to time, but I'm not really looking at the beat as a whole... I'm looking at it as a composition that might need more sounds, or layers, or drums, or whatever.

So, in summary to this long, drawn out post that's a waste of everyone's time, I've come to the conclusion that eating apples is much healthier than eating oranges.
 
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