Production Roundtable

[Treynine39]

All the producers or beatmakers in the site should express what they feel are good and bad, produciton-wise, in hip hop.

I feel the best thing about producing now is the versatility and creativity of some producers out there (Neptunes, Jazzy Pha, and of course Dre and Tim)

The bad thing about out right now is there is too many people using blatant samples. Like 3 out of J. Lo's last 4 hits, Jay-Z/Toni Braxton, and Ashanti. That is just pure lazy. I'm sure all them songs would have done good if you threw and original track to them. Every once in a while it isn't badbut when you listen to the radio and it seems like every track is redone from a past hit, it's boring.

 

[J-UK]

I think a lot of todays hip hop production is quite boring. Producers are just making the same thing. It seems that someone makes a beat that is original and then the style just gets copied. I see this happen a lot in the mainstream production especially and I think that the stuff that doesnt get heard as much is a lot better. I like the production from the uk at the moment, a lot of the hip hop coming out here is original and good. I think that if you are an aspiring artist you make better beats but if you are an producer making beats for well known artists you would get lazy.

 

[Fade]

Damn, I thought I was gonna start this kind of thread! Good lookin'.

I think the current state is quite stale. Nothing exciting coming out, everything just seems rushed. It seems like producers are happy with just creating a 4 or 8 bar loop and looping it for 4 minutes, then calling it a "song".

I'm actually listening to some Motown right now (ok I shouldn't really compare it to hip-hop), and that music just had soul, it had something to it that made you wanna move. A lot of time and practice went into creating that kind of music, but Hip-Hop production today seems rushed. Maybe it's the record companies that are pushing for too much product too soon, forcing the producers to hurry up and use the same samples and patterns over and over.

What today's production needs is a few cats to sort of "revolutionize" it. Bring something new to the table that won't go out of style in a year or two. The Neptunes brought some heat a few years back, but their stuff is getting a little tired now.

I could go on and on, I'm gonna take a break and see what others have to say before I add some more input.

 

[BeatOff]

The problem is with the record lables. Nobody cares about anybody other than the same 4 or 5 big time producers. Lables will want their artists on neptunes beats because they are hot at the momment. There was a time when swizz beats was hot and thats all you heard, then timbaland and thats all you heard, now its Neptunes and Just Blaze. Thats all you hear. Its a fucking joke now. Clear channel has ruined the industry and somebody should go assasinate the entire staff of clear channel.

I make R&B now because i dont like dealing with rappers who want beats that sound like so in so. All i get from MC's is, "I want beats like primo, i want beats like neptunes." I never had an R&B artist just come at me like that. They want beats I make to go with their vocals. I mean they can adapt to the sound if they got talent. I've grown very bored with hiphop music in general. With R&B there's always time for some soothing funky good vocals over an original beat. I'm not trying to make that typical boring R&B with the played out shit on every song. Hopefully things will go smooth but as for production in general like i said, there are plenty of dope original producers out there but they are getting no love from big companies becuase they like shit to be repetative and only want 20 songs played per day across the US. I'm outraged.

 

[JPeg]

Interesting producers there are some hot ones for instance RJD2, Jay-Dee, J-zone and Madlib.

Those peeps just mentioned are just some producers out there in the hip hop arena making good compositions and whose music has changes and progressions in the songs.

Madlib is making Jazz compositions in 15 minutes and playing all the instruments himself so u cant say he aint being creative.

But check the interview urself at www.stonesthrow.com

 

[Ques]

One simple answer to all this mad

Hip Hop is lost what you and i want most and that creative minds.
what most have forgotten is the feel, you know like back in the park when you before call yourself a producer, ya mans be like give me a beat or just at bench beatboxing. Now head do it for work and true i agree most out today is boring and with that soon are thier minds.

 

[metrosoul]

WHY DO ARTIST ABANDON THE GOOD PRODUCERS

HMMMMM.............WELL WE HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN BEFORE EVEN WITH THE GREAT ONES. NAS ABANDONS PETE ROCK AND PREMIER TO GET WITH A BUNCH OF FAGS, RAKIM LEAVES ERIC B. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AND WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN? WHO THE HELL KNOWS. PETE ROCK AND PREMIER PRODUCED ARGUIBLY THE BEST ALBUM OF ALL TIME, BUT FOR SOME REASON NAS DECIDES TO LEAVE THEM. YOU WOULD THINK HE HAS LOST HIS MIND AND I PERSONALY THINK HE DID. SLUM VILLAGE LEFT JD FOR SOME LOSER, BUT WHY? THE ONLY REASON THEY WERE GOOD WAS BECAUSE OF THE BEATS, AND THEIR WIERDO LYRICS WENT PERFECTLY WITH IT BUT FOR SOME REASON THEY LEFT HIM. WHEN WILL ARTIST STICK WITH THE PRODUCERS THAT MADE THEM THE HITS AND FLOURISHED THEIR CAREERS. AND NOW A DAYS ARTIS JUST GET WITH PRETTY MUCH ONE GROUP OF PRODUCER (THE NEPTUNES) IM STARTING TO HATE THEM BECAUSE EVERY SONG ON THE RADIO AND TV SEEMS TO BE JUST THEM. IS THIS WHAT IT HAS COME DOWN TO. WELL I'LL SAVE MY THOUGHTS FOR ANOTHER DAY, BUT FOR NOW THINK OF WHAT I JUST SAID AND TRY TO MAKE SOME SENSE OUT OF IT.

 

[BeatOff]

Clear Channel is the reason why you only hear the same 3 or 4 producers.

 

[Treynine39]

Remember when...

Remember when an album had like one, maybe two producers on it. It it was usually hot. Now the artist wanna cram many different producers all on one album. Problem is, they are the same 5-8 producers. Like Tim on every album. 'Tunes on every album. Dre gets on albums, but he picks and chooses wisely. He don't except no garbage rapper on his tracks. And I feel like lyricists are falling off too, and that's why the producers are getting pushed more by the big labels . If your rapper sucks, but you got Pharrell singing on it, then the radio will play it. How many people where on Big's first album? Tupacs? Nas? Jay had a couple, but now their albums are oversarated with guest appearences. All because it's you man, or fam, it don't mean he can rhyme well, or make a hot track. Small time producers without the right connection like most of us are getting screwed.

 

[Pug]

Madlib is making Jazz compositions in 15 minutes and playing all the instruments himself so u cant say he aint being creative.

I've lost all respect for madlib.. after finding countless loops and samples out in the open.. shit he's looped SONGS for cripes sake.. now thats a creative approach haha

Original sample
www.illmuzik.com/pug/1.mp3

Madlib's version: http://sandbox.pair.com/sound/madlib_badkid.ram

 

[" Killah! "]

Tracks are redone from a past hit because it pretty much ensures that the song will be palatable and marketable. It's easier to take a chance commercially by releasing a song with a sample that has been proven to sell than one that hasn't. That's just the view from a commercial standpoint.

Also, many labels view hiphop albums as an easy investment and return, hiphop can be cranked out a lot faster than rock, and the point is to get that target demographic.

MTV, circa 1995, along with the broadcast industry, did a broad qualitative and quantitative survey regading the target demographics needed to be captured by the channel, and likeminded radio stations, in order to sell advertising spots to the most marketable audience. This was viewed as the 18 and under "Generation Y" youngsters who consisted of the stereotype "hyper-sexualized teenage girl", and the "angry male white teenager." These two stereotypes were branded the "midriff" and the "mook", both types were caucasian, suburban, middle-class, and have a tremendous amount of purchasing power.

In order to appeal to this audience, advertisers began aggressively targeting these two markets... and in turn the music industry had to target them as well. Eminem fit well for the "mook" and Jimmy Iovine even stated that Eminem was highly marketable to angry suburban teenage males.

However, females 12-18yrs are the greatest record buyers and hence, the Ja Rule phenomenons, where cookie cutter pop songs disguised as hiphop are played on the radio talking about "love," and like topics. As long as your sister is buying Ja Rule, and her friends are listening to him, radio and television will play his songs. Irv Gotti proves he understands the "game" by marketing Ja Rule to the young female audience in the way that he has. From a commercial standpoint, Irv Gotti is brilliant, however...

How can you say HIP HOP is DEAD? Or is stale? Have you picked up a DefinitiveJux pressed album? Have you listened to the versatility of El-P, or Aesop Rock... Have you walked into the Sistine Chapel of lyricism aided by the immaculate words of Ras Kass? If you think hiphop is dead, you obviously have been overlooking the constantly growing underground hiphop scene, focusing on great words, and also on different production.

BUT... as long as you have the target demographic to exploit, the Neptunes will make songs for Snoop Dogg called "Beautiful," because Snoop needs to hit the younger girls to up his record sales.

So you can produce what you think will be on radio, or you can go for something groundbreaking, make 180 degree turn and be a trailblazer. People will ridicule you, but if it's different, people will always criticize. Just make sure what you do is so completely different that people will wonder where you came with the idea. Don't be derivative of another producer completely, but be yourself.

Anyway, I had my little rant... replies would be helpful.

1

 

[J-UK]

Killah knows what he is talkin about. Hip Hop is definately not dead.

 

[BeatOff]

It also depends what you like. I personally hate def jux with a passion. El P is racket on my ears. To some people Fabolous is hiphop its all relative. I dont think its dead at all. Boring Yes Dead No.

 

[Big La]

OK. Here's my take on this topic.

First off: I don't think there's anything wrong with Hip-Hop. The four elements can't really be messed with.

What we seem to be discussing is 'rap music'. And you need to realize that rap music is (first and foremost) a business. The reason rap music is the way it is, is for profit. In business, you find out what sells the best, and you tweak your product to sell the most units. Rap music's always had it's low points where it gets stale (ex. Afro-Centric Era, Gansta, G-Funk era, etc.) When a trend or style goes mainstream, you see the bulk of the artists tweaking their styles or grabbing popular producers from the Genre.

Personally, I'm sick of these rappers who have these discussions like they're the caretakers of Hip-Hop (read: The Source "Hip-Hop Under Atttack" discussion). People like Eve, and Fabolous, etc.. all these people are rap artist, who make money from rhymin'. Hip-Hop isn't their first concern. Paying their bills is their first concern, so you can't knock them for that. But they need to know their place.

There are tons of people (worldwide) who represent Hip-Hop a lot harder, than rappin' on a record.

A couple months ago , I saw a group of kids head up to a parking lot with a big piece of cardboard and a boom box and start breakdancing, and bumpin' Mr. Lif. That lets me know that Hip-Hop is still alive and kicking.

As for the music, I think we're in another low point. Soon, someone will put out a song with a new style and the music will be revitalized. And then everyone with start sounding just like it and it'll get stale again. It's just a process.

But Hip-Hop is still alive and kicking.

 

[Fade]

You're right - HipHop is NOT dead.

All 4 elements are still represented throughout the world in a good way, it's just that my point is that popular rap music that's heard on radio and video really sucks. Sure, there's still lots of underground and independent stuff that blows me away, but for the most part, not really.

I think my main point is that everything's at a stand still. It's kind of like the NBA's slam dunk contest - back in the day it was the illest because there were so many dunks that were never tried, or seen before. Now it's boring because everything's been done already.

But we need to get back to the whole point of this thread - PRODUCTION. How do you guys feel about today's production? I know it's a fine line to cross over and start debating about rap music, but I'm just curious as to what everyone's opinions are on today's beats.

 

[J-UK]

I like a lot of todays beats, but I hate a lot as well. There is a lot of original and interesting production today, but there is also a lot of boring and repetitive production. There will always be good and bad beats, I think it's just that you need to look a bit harder for the good.

 

[Ques]

I myself can 't dislike anothers creativity, but boring yes especially if it the same old cat who done all the wack out that year and he fails to show skills and technic on production. Man no wonder i dont listen to the radio anymore. Feel me!


QuEs

 

[" Killah! "]

Hiphop and production are synonymous. The production turns a person's lyric into song. As I've stated, the populace dictates what the producers churn out at this time, and there needs to be people willing to take the "risk" and go the other way.

I actually think some of the better drum programming has come along with hiphop in recent years.

Anyway, keep the conversation going.

 

[tallblkproducer]

RAP IS OUTTA CONTROL!!!!

PRODUCTION WISE, HIPHOP IS PRETTY MUCH IN MY OPINION SOUNDING MORE R AND BISH. THERE ARE STILL SOME PRODUCERS WHO STILL DO THEIR THING. TIMBALAND GAVE A WHOLE NEW MEANING TO THE PHRASE "DRUM PATTERN". THE NEW BEAT FOR LIL ' KIM IS SICK!!!! THE DRUMS SOUND LIKE A REAL DRUM SECTION IN A BAND PLAYING THAT SHIT. HELL, IT MIGHT BE!!! ITS STILL ALOT A GOOD MUSIC OUT THERE IF U CHECK FOR IT, BUT A WHOLE LOT MORE OF BULLSHIT.

 

[BeatOff]

You think timbalands drums sound like real drums? He makes most of his snares with his mouth and distorts his kicks they dont sound real at all to me, just different and hella dope.