Selling Beats 2 Artists/Companies, Etc & Sampling

[E.R.]

i was reading the last scratch and buddy was sayin that the labels will always put up your publishing first to clear a sample...can someone explain how that works? is it like this:

i sell them the beat...they go & clear it...the original copyright holders want 20 percent. does that mean that instead of 100% of the mechanical royalties i would recieve off album sales, i recieve 80%?

i figure thats how it works, if not please correct me if im wrong.

also would it be to my advantage to try & clear the samples myself to avoid that (or would this be useless for someone like me who has no industry clout?)

another, i aaaaalways see a different answer, but is it ok to copyright my beats if they contain samples, if i list the derivative works? and i would i get a pa form or an sr form?

and finally lol, around how much would it come to if i decided to start up my publishing company? reading over the ascap form i dont see any fees or anything, but city/state wish would i have to pay anything in particular for starting a company?

 

[bigdmakintrax]

put it like this, if you are heavily sampling you had better hold your own and be able to do it consistently because from what i understand the fees and licenses will eat heavily into your bottom line.....not as much money is made (coming to you) on a track that has clearances and licensing ahead thats why you have to weigh what you want to accomplish......if you are working with a major label sometimes they have a huge list of samples that are sort of open and easy and sometimes they have paid to use certain artists work already so its a formality, but if you are using some sample that is either hard to clear or they cant find someone in the chain that has rights to the copyright you gonna be hard pressed to see that song make it to final press because the last thing a label wants is for an uncleared sample to make it to one of their projects and leave them open to someone discovering the sample later even if no one knows the sample
and you do not tell them.

Clearing the sample yourself is possible but for most fully pressed up work on vinyl archives there is an entourage of folks you will need to talk to, sometimes if the original owner has died the estate or heirs have control over it......the only way it would be easy if you know the artist and you know that the artist has all rights to the work sometimes hidden entitiies have more interest than who you might think owns the work and could give permission....but if you knew the person and they had dibs on copyright all you need is expressed written permission....but basically 1 sample thats not cleared on an album can hold up the checks to everyone on that album...so this is another reason you get saavy about the ins and outs cause your hard work may not be compensated if another knucklehead tries to be slick and not report a sample and someone finds out after the shits released.

Publishing company sounds really BIG huh? it just saying that you have some type of performing rights org membership and a way to register and track what you produce in so many words, but yes having your own publishing is valuable, its valuable when working on deals that someone may try to stiff you and leave you out of the final credits....running your own biz is by far the best way to go, that way if you sign artists and you have a label or production company where you sign producers you can get your cut and make up paperwork that can actually undercut the standards the performing rights org has set as far as royalties....you know the 50/50 rules.......writer/composer etc.... I been in ascap since like 99 or 2000 and it did not cost me anything as far as now I am not sure of the actual requirements but running your company and the cost is going to depend on the how and what are going to come into play to run the biz.

 

[E.R.]

^bet that up on the info, cuz most of my samples are chopped up to hell, and they are mostly latin or reggae records seein as most of it is my folks records...but those are the tracks that i feel are more marketable, because anyone of any "style" so to speak can hop up on...my composed beats are on some more real bassy dirty south shit, and outside of like florida & georgia you dont hear many people on those type of tracks...but good lookin out on that information

 

[5th Sequence]

What's the difference between trying to clear a sample yourself and having a label do it? Would you tell the people that you have sold it or are planning to sell it? you probably wouldnt want to mention names of artists your working with. I have no idea but i'm interested. Also, how the HELL do you find out who owns the rights? I have sample information off of the record but what do I do with the info? I tried looking into who held the rights of this one sample a while back and got horribly horribly lost.

 

[E.R.]

^have you tried checking ascap.com or bmi.com on their search lists? you might be able to find what youre lookin for there but im not sure

 

[djswivel]

Let me break it down for you all....

As far as publishing on a song, there is a split between the producer, and writer

Song=100%

Producer=50%
Writer=50%

Generally, when labels go to clear the samples, they will take whatever percentage the publishing company wants out of the producers half of the pie. So, let's say you sample Marvin Gaye. If the company that holds his publishing asks for 30% (not uncommon, some companies ask for 100%---Barry White's is the WORST!!!), the labels are going to take that 30% out of the producers 50%, leaving the producer with only 20% of the publishing.

Writer=50%
Producer=20%
Marvin Gaye's Publishing=30%

BUT, some producers work out deals with the labels to take SAMPLES OFF THE TOP. Now let me use the above example with the samples off the top scenario.


With samples off the top, the 30% for Marvin Gaye's publishing company comes off the top of the 100% pie.

Song=100%
(minus) Marvin Gaye's Publishing=30%

New song split=70%
Producer=35%
Writer=35%


This works out well for the producer, and hurts the writer a little bit. But in the end, the writer doesn't really have a job without a producer. Often times, the writer and the producer are the same person or team, so then it really makes no difference.

I hope this helps

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Thanks Swivel I didn't want to have to go deep into explaining the scenarios, this would be like the 5th time I know at least LOL but yeah you got it....also this all is just estimates cause you figure in your manager and legal fees each of them at least usually get 10% each off the tizzop too....not to mention the miscellaneous...using a sample will kill what you could have gotten had you just been original though....
https://www.illmuzik.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7794&highlight=50%

 

[djswivel]

Well of course, there are managers and all that, but those numbers are all situation dependant, but the whole producer/writer splits is generally ALWAYS the same 50/50 split.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

yep thats what I wrote in tha other thread if you actually read it, and a number of times, been in ascap since 99 or so they haven't changed those rules.....but I just added to the realism of what you put up dawg.

 

[E.R.]

Let me break it down for you all....


BUT, some producers work out deals with the labels to take SAMPLES OFF THE TOP. Now let me use the above example with the samples off the top scenario.


With samples off the top, the 30% for Marvin Gaye's publishing company comes off the top of the 100% pie.

Song=100%
(minus) Marvin Gaye's Publishing=30%

New song split=70%
Producer=35%
Writer=35%


This works out well for the producer, and hurts the writer a little bit. But in the end, the writer doesn't really have a job without a producer. Often times, the writer and the producer are the same person or team, so then it really makes no difference.

I hope this helps

how would the producer go about doin this?

 

[djswivel]

If you have a label that wants your music, you can make an attempt at writing that into the contract. Hopefully they won't have too big of an issue. Honestly, it may really depend on who the writers of the song are. If you're a small time producer but the songwriter is someone major, they're probably not gonna let it slide. Honestly, I don't know everything about the situation. I work a lot with MIDI Mafia and everything they do, they get samples off the top. That's just a deal they havce set up through their various projects. But they're a major production team....Someone new with no track record, it may be a different story.

 

[5th Sequence]

Thanks guys. You cleared up a lot of shit. Although using samples is obviously not the most profitable I wouldn't have my style if I didn't use them. Gotta go the rough route. Thanks though.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Hey Swivel I met Bruce Wayne up in BK back in August he said he was looking for joints, he gave me some good advice too, I email him ery now and then, so what types of projects you working on with them?

 

[HittMann]

Hey Dj Swivel...

About the 50/50 split between producer and artist.....

What about the "producer advance" and the royalty points (regularly 3%)

I know what you say makes sense, but It's totally different from the above which is more common in the Industry...

Remember that from the 100% of the song, 50% does not go to the artist and/or the producer... there's the label, the managers, and all the shady Mfukkas that suck from the royalties...

 

[BeatSense]

Let me break it down for you all....

As far as publishing on a song, there is a split between the producer, and writer

Song=100%

Producer=50%
Writer=50%

Generally, when labels go to clear the samples, they will take whatever percentage the publishing company wants out of the producers half of the pie. So, let's say you sample Marvin Gaye. If the company that holds his publishing asks for 30% (not uncommon, some companies ask for 100%---Barry White's is the WORST!!!), the labels are going to take that 30% out of the producers 50%, leaving the producer with only 20% of the publishing.

Writer=50%
Producer=20%
Marvin Gaye's Publishing=30%

BUT, some producers work out deals with the labels to take SAMPLES OFF THE TOP. Now let me use the above example with the samples off the top scenario.


With samples off the top, the 30% for Marvin Gaye's publishing company comes off the top of the 100% pie.

Song=100%
(minus) Marvin Gaye's Publishing=30%

New song split=70%
Producer=35%
Writer=35%


This works out well for the producer, and hurts the writer a little bit. But in the end, the writer doesn't really have a job without a producer. Often times, the writer and the producer are the same person or team, so then it really makes no difference.

I hope this helps

good lookin' out, im jus now getting into sampling and was curious on how it worked when publishing or selling a beat thats sampled.. this helped alot. thanks!

 

[open mind]

good lookin' out, im jus now getting into sampling and was curious on how it worked when publishing or selling a beat thats sampled.. this helped alot. thanks!

STFU burna! u a ******** beatjacker! u wanna make buzinezz with other peepz beatz? get tha phuck outta here.how can u look to yourself in the mirror?