Subconscious plagiarism

Iron Keys

ILLIEN
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 7
How often you make a beat or a melody that sounds real good and you go...

"I feel like I've heard this before" ??

Annoying and offputting af
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 7
I hear that for sure.

But you can literally get into legal trouble over "subconscious plagiarism" which is wild ha. They don't even need to prove that you did, just that you could have.
 

Crispifier

The Real SlimSpaceship
Battle Points: 4
Yeah the idea of copyrighting melodies is hilarious, some guys even made a code that could make a daw calculate every possible permutation in an octave (they came up with a retarded number 80 mil or something (cant remember exact but really friggin huge atleast ) and saved it to a hard drive being that a legal requierment is to have it as a physical object.I even think they managed to get a copyright for it. these guys did it just to prove a point on how dumb the law is right now like if you even play the notes in sequence to for example can you feel the love tonight you're infringing on sir eltons intellectual property and his lawyers have every right to sue you and furthermore you could technically be sued 70 years after the dude has died as copyright lasts well after the actual artist has deceased

to answer your question though: yeah i do this all the time sometimes on purpose :p
 
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OGBama

Greatest Woman Alive

Crispifier

The Real SlimSpaceship
Battle Points: 4
@OGBama yes, yes it is it is a bunch of suits who have decided to make a quick buck off sucessfull and creative people, the software you linked is exactly the bs im talking about :) when i say hilarious i mean it. its hilarious how evil and insidious copyright law can be

here's the video about what i was writing about, i have very limited understanding of law and coding just to clarify

 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 7
Yeah the idea of copyrighting melodies is hilarious, some guys even made a code that could make a daw calculate every possible permutation in an octave (they came up with a retarded number 80 mil or something (cant remember exact but really friggin huge atleast ) and saved it to a hard drive being that a legal requierment is to have it as a physical object.I even think they managed to get a copyright for it. these guys did it just to prove a point on how dumb the law is right now like if you even play the notes in sequence to for example can you feel the love tonight you're infringing on sir eltons intellectual property and his lawyers have every right to sue you and furthermore you could technically be sued 70 years after the dude has died as copyright lasts well after the actual artist has deceased

to answer your question though: yeah i do this all the time sometimes on purpose :p
Yes! This is exactly my understandingof it.

Wasn't aware of it's changed and how across countries.

I know many want to hate it and i know in some situations it can be an obstacle, but it's also there to protect US as musicians, writers, composers etc.

I know some may front on thisquestion, but how would you feel if yoy made some banger, but someone decided to steal it and become rich andfamous off it... peak.

But i thinkeven Pharrell got done and he even inverted chords and somewhat changed it from the original... imagine just bein influenced by some thing and getting slapped. Oof
 

Crispifier

The Real SlimSpaceship
Battle Points: 4
@Iron Keys Its a tough balance i personally feel anything other than straight copypaste should be fine, samples notes chords rythmn each of these is i beleive is ok to copy as long as its not all of them at once. I feel as long as the artist has done something to make it their own they "own" it it not an easy thing to quantify obectivly even more so through legal means. Acapellas are another thing though i dont feel you should be able not monitize others vocal talents w/o consent kinda weird i feel that way but dunno its sorta the heart of a song maybe?
 

2GooD Productions

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Yes! This is exactly my understandingof it.

Wasn't aware of it's changed and how across countries.

I know many want to hate it and i know in some situations it can be an obstacle, but it's also there to protect US as musicians, writers, composers etc.

I know some may front on thisquestion, but how would you feel if yoy made some banger, but someone decided to steal it and become rich andfamous off it... peak.

But i thinkeven Pharrell got done and he even inverted chords and somewhat changed it from the original... imagine just bein influenced by some thing and getting slapped. Oof
i dont think its so much about protecting artists as it is about protecting the profits of the huge corporations that own all the rights.
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN
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Battle Points: 7
i dont think its so much about protecting artists as it is about protecting the profits of the huge corporations that own all the rights.
But if they didn't have those rights, they wouldn't make money. And neither would you.

Copyright was invented to protect musicians. Musicians used to get paid to play. But then people could just copy the music on those piano rolls and musician doesnt get paid.

But back to your point... If you're signed and your label/publisher doesn't get paid - you don't get paid.
 

2GooD Productions

Im back
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But if they didn't have those rights, they wouldn't make money. And neither would you.

Copyright was invented to protect musicians. Musicians used to get paid to play. But then people could just copy the music on those piano rolls and musician doesnt get paid.

But back to your point... If you're signed and your label/publisher doesn't get paid - you don't get paid.
even if you are signed, until your advance has been paid off, you arent getting paid even if the label or multinational corporation is.

This is how Michael Jackson was very very clever, he bought the rights to the Beatles and sued Sony and won. Thats fucking epic. Ive lost count of tales of huge number one artists being broke, because they never wrote the lyrics and they never wrote the music. If you really want to get paid, own the rights to your music. Many people are going independent now, instead of getting sucked into the antiquated business of ripping off naive youngsters who are promised the world and given a debt.
 

Iron Keys

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Battle Points: 7
even if you are signed, until your advance has been paid off, you arent getting paid even if the label or multinational corporation is.

This is how Michael Jackson was very very clever, he bought the rights to the Beatles and sued Sony and won. Thats fucking epic. Ive lost count of tales of huge number one artists being broke, because they never wrote the lyrics and they never wrote the music. If you really want to get paid, own the rights to your music. Many people are going independent now, instead of getting sucked into the antiquated business of ripping off naive youngsters who are promised the world and given a debt.
I know about all that. But if they can't profit off your music and pay off your debt. Then you don't make money anyway.

That's why the most important thing to have first in music is a lawyer.

There's clever ways in contracts labels make you pay for things you shouldn't. But you agreed to it by signing. (If anyone wants to discuss what those ways are i can indulge)

Well the point there is if you didn't write the music nor the lyrics, you don't have any copyright. You didn't create anything. You're just a performer or a model.

That's why writing your stuff if important - publishing. Publishig is where you make your money. Record labels are just mechanical sales. This day hm there's no real sales any more.

But also with majors vs independs or solo,
Majors - 90%
Independents - 50%
Solo - 100 %

But the thing is... even though a major will take 90% of what you make, they could still probablt actually make you earn morethan the other methods. Due to their name and marketing budgets and quality.

But to return to original point... without copyright, you're making no money off music.
 

2GooD Productions

Im back
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I know about all that. But if they can't profit off your music and pay off your debt. Then you don't make money anyway.

That's why the most important thing to have first in music is a lawyer.

There's clever ways in contracts labels make you pay for things you shouldn't. But you agreed to it by signing.

Well the point there is if you didn't write the music nor the lyrics, you don't have any copyright. You didn't create anything. You're just a performer or a model.

That's why writing your stuff if important - publishing. Publishig is where you make your money. Record labels are just mechanical sales. This day hm there's no real sales any more.

But also with majors vs independs or solo,
Majors - 90%
Independents - 50%
Solo - 100 %

But the thing is... even though a major will take 90% of what you make, they could still probablt actually make you earn morethan the other methods. Due to their name and marketing budgets and quality.

But to return to original point... without copyright, you're making no money off music.
No truer words spoken than consult a lawyer before signing anything.

When you go in with your eyes open you can balance the exposure you will gain from the contract, and is it a worth while trade off for being stuck in a contract for so many years?

Its just about being aware that the business is shady as fuck and protecting yourself. And making informed decisions rather than quickly jumping into something that you will later regret. Yes copyright is to protect the creators of art, but those laws have been abused by the big corporations since the beginning of the 2000's when sample clearance fees were fucking huge and big business.
 

Iron Keys

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*** ill o.g. ***
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Buying your masters isn't even such a massive thing...

Just re-record the track. If the label doesn't own the mix you can literally just pay a mastering studio to master it and you own the master.

The only issue is if you're still under contract that they own everything you make - there are also more tricks to this too.
 

OGBama

Greatest Woman Alive
Discuss @Iron Keys those clever ways. Plus, not everybody can write, should write and/or wants to write.
 

Crispifier

The Real SlimSpaceship
Battle Points: 4
it depends im not a pro so i have no idea how evil labels can be, though i do know of some the well known horror stories, might come down to a specific label at a specific time? i mean all its like this in all performing arts we even have the term hollywood accounting to describe it. not sure if you guys are interested but this is a letter Courtney Love wrote on the actual costs of being in the music buisness

 

2GooD Productions

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Battle Points: 546
My best mate toured the world with 2Unlimited at the peak of their career, he shared a stage in Monte Carlo with Michael Jackson. They didnt write their own music, a producer from Belgium did. They were just performers and the tour schedule was fucking tight.
My mate told me he visited the producers house and it was a fucking mansion.
Hence why Im a producer hahahaha, just without the fucking mansion....yet. hahahaha
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 7
Plus, not everybody can write, should write and/or wants to write.
That's fine... but if you dont, what is it exactly you think you own? You didn't create anything. You're essentially one or both of two things.
- a performer
- a model

At which point you can still get money from sales. Or try profit from your celebrity.

But you can also view it as a free loan to enjoy the rockstar life; you may never see a penny/cent of what you make, and ultimately your label themselves may not even make a penny from you. However they likely spent hundreds of thousands on you even million on you to fly first class, stay in top hotels, tv appearances, record with top producers in top studios. Awards parties. Luxury clothing and stylists. Ride in limos. Drink expensive champagne.

Now one of the tricks is, you're likely paying for all this - all this factors into the momey your records have to recoup before you make any money for yourself.

However, if you don't recoup that money, you're not expected to pay it back. It's gambles labels used to take on an artist. But you still got to live that life for "free".

But remember one of these tricks is you're also paying for the label to enjoy these first class flights parties and champagne.

But if you had enough of a good public image and know how to capitalise on your fame you can earn your own money and career outside of the deal.

It's why you see these ex pop stars from like Take That or whatever boybands just some poor struggling person... they were just models, they're not creators. But why Gary Barlow is still successful - writes songs and capitalised also on his celebrity.
 

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