The End Of Sampling.. New Court Ruling

jaydub23510

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
I can't believe we don't agree on what's good hip hop! Cold Truth, after arguing with you all the time, I went to listen to your soundclick page, man you are pretty good dude, you have a style like Dr. Dre or something for real, you need to sample some of his drums everything else is banging yo, some of your beats sound like they would be bannanas with a female singer, jmho!!
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
For your information CT, most of the guys that sample only do it to get the sounds not the actual performance, you might have a sample with 5 instruments on it, and chop it into pieces and create your own melodies, I'd rather buy a $1,000 sampler and have unlimited sounds, than buy some crappy keyboard for $1500 and in 3-5 years those sounds be played out!

CASIO will sue your ass for using there sounds with out permission ask SWIZZ![/QUOTE]

lol, i could/would/WILL/DO serious damage with those "crappy" $1500 keyboards! (actually its vst's right now) and personally, i think the ONLY limitation to a producer- sampling or non sampling- is their own brain..... and his discipline.

keyboard sounds are only played because you keep hearing the same types of beats being made with them... most people think my shit is sampled off the jump as it is. i think that shows that i know how to use synths fairly well if i have been able to fool so many people..... personally, i prefer to have that keyboard stocked with sounds to create music from scratch..... and if you know what you are doing with it, it WONT get played...

as far as swizz and the casio, he took the preset phrases and made beats out of those- he didnt create his own melodies out of a patch when he got sued. they arent inteded to use the preset demo phrases.
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
Thanks.

jaydub23510 said:
I can't believe we don't agree on what's good hip hop! Cold Truth, after arguing with you all the time, I went to listen to your soundclick page, man you are pretty good dude, you have a style like Dr. Dre or something for real, you need to sample some of his drums everything else is banging yo, some of your beats sound like they would be bannanas with a female singer, jmho!!

coming from i guy i argue with all the friggin time, that is a pretty good compliment.

allthough, where have we disagreed on what was good hip hop? we usually disagree on basic issues surrounding something, not the music itself (at least from my memory).

anyways, i am really glad we have been able to debate without anyone getting personal or heated or anything... good, healthy debating, nowthatswutimtawkinbout!
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
Im not about to comment this new US regulation on sampling, I mean, you use another man's talent for your own profit than you pay. That how it is, with or without the laws, they're just making sure by this enhanced law on sampling.

1 ct.

There's a huge difference between samplism and someone who samples phrases, just think about.

1 ct.

Ive quickly read through this thread but what's the deal with cats looking down at producers that are sample biased in their production ? Like most of all popular hardware around ( except for va or just analogues ) are based on pcm modelling and/or multisamples. I'd prefer to sample a piano for instance than to use a crappy piano preset from any synth cause mostly they'll sound like crap, certainly not convincing. I aint to hate on either since Im doing both composing the traditional way and sampling or both.

1 ct.

@ Cold.

A sampler is good and has its benefits, but a good synth or keyboard is a source for your library. Even better is to use the synth without being sampled, the sounds dont die out, that's up to the user to make them sound appealing which mostly takes more than just the synth alone. Face it, like most of the sound you hear are from vintage synths and drumachines anyway, were still using em and I bet we will for the next decade.

my 3 offtopic cts muhahahaha!!!
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
um where did people get the impression that i was looking down on samplers? how did that happen?

my stance has always been do what you want to do in this.... i personally havent sampled in about a year and i am much the better for it, and taht i smy preference, but i never held anyone else to that.

you guys are bugging man..... i debated with bastard about wether or not knowing "the roots" of hip hop made a difference to an artist's own work, and while the sampling/synth issue was a part of that, it was in the context of me saying, two turntables do me no good if i dont sample, which i dont, so it doesnt make a differece to me either way.

i know what a sampler is, does, and is used for... i have said repeatedly my favorite producers are sample based. how does taht always fly wa yover everyones head?

her eis the thing:

everyone says (mysself included) "i would rather do/use_________-" and thats the damn thing RIGHT THERE. what YOU would do. YOU. not ME. I shouldnt do something a certain way because YOU do, or YOU think that its the "right" way of doing it.

btw, i have heard several excellent piano presets from all the major synths, as well as a few dedicated pian ovst's that are very good as well. they sound "crappy" as compared to a sampled "real" piano, because the original player was a trained and knowledgeable pianist who plays piano, knows his chops, and uses pedals and sustains whereas most guys with synths today (as in my case) who arent using a pedal and doesnt REALLY know how to play.

"certainly not convincing"... if you cant play, you cant play.... period. and thats what it boils down to. if yuo have skills yuo have skills regardless of the method.

and once again, let me spell this out for those who cant seem to understand me to well.

I LOVE SAMPLED BEATS, MY FAVORITE PRODUCERS ARE SAMPLE BASED PRODUCERS, I JUST DONT MAKE SAMPLED BEATS BECAUSE THATS MY STEEZE ANDI DO THINGS THE WAY I AM COMFORTABLE DOING THEM NOT SOME LAME ASS RULE THAT SAYS I SHOULD DO IT A CERTAIN BECAUSE SOME GUY DID IT THAT WAY 20 YEARS AGO. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ARTISTS WHO SAMPLE OR SAMPLING IN GENERAL.

how hard is that to understand? sounds simple enough to me.
 
T

The Bastard

Guest
but sampling is the roots and u said people dont need to know the roots and we need to move foward and innovate , so u love sampled beats but u dont think people need to know the roots ?
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
i dont think that it is vital information in terms of determining one's direction, no.

why? because it is common knowledge! name one artist, ONE, who DOESNT know aobut hip hop's roots. everyone knows where it came from, and yuo are dilusional if you think otherwise. everyone obviously makes different music. you dont think lil john knows his history? does his music sound like hip hops original sound? dont think so..... not unless you use planet rock (read:electric funk,which relied heavily on synths and 808's) as a percurser to his whole style.

so tell me, who DOESNT know about the one-turntable-and-a-record art of producing? who? tell me? everyone knows... and they do the music they want to do for whatever reason, but it doesnt sound like your daddy's rap music.

artists know where hip hop came from and how it sounded and how it was made. that doesnt cause them to make their music a certain because of it. you dont think cash money knows the roots? do they sound like early 80's hip hop? is mantronix considered in yuor "roots" equation?

do i think that we should continue to innovate and move forward and do the things that come natural as artists as opposed to worrying about sounding like what hip hop once sounded like? YUP.

i know what the roots of hip hop are and it has no bearing on my style or my methods. i know the turntable method. does that mean i should use it? if so, why? why, when i am comfortable doing it another way- when i prefer it another way?

and ONCE AGAIN,

i am not saying anything against sampling. i am saying, if thats the way you ge tdown, great, but dont act like everyone should do it that way too. yes, we shuold move forward and innovate... that doesnt mean, and i never said, that people should abandon sampling, or take up another method. you said, "people will get more and more out of touch with hip hops roots", did you not? implying, people will start moving away from sampling more.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
Cold Truth said:
i dont think that it is vital information in terms of determining one's direction, no.

why? because it is common knowledge! name one artist, ONE, who DOESNT know aobut hip hop's roots. everyone knows where it came from, and yuo are dilusional if you think otherwise.
Truth, jus to play devils advocate here:
I think that if you look at it from a perspective like, say "so-and-so" listens to strictly west coast rap, has and always will...and "So-and-so's" never bothered to listen to any other form of rap/hiphop since he thinks that tha "G-Funk" era is all that and a bag of chips...Plus, "so-and-so" also has never been influenced by anything else so what do you expect?...None of "so-and-so's" friends listen to anything else besides casidy and warren g, so what do u think theyre perspective on Hiphops going to be?....Very closed minded for one!....Two; so-and-so and his dipshit friends never bothered to listen to any other kinds of hiphop and also never really gave it a chance aside from tha fact that becuase of never experiencing and learning about other peoples music outside of theyre little circle - they also never expanded theyre general knowledge of some of the hiphop legends and greats and how they got started, what they used to make theyre music, etc.
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
ahh but if those ohter artist do not appeal to them, why should they have to go and study up on something that dont appeal to them? if they are comfortable where they are, with what the y like and listen to, why should they have to study some early east coast music to satisfy the whims of some purists idealistic perspective?

still; name me an artist who does not know where hip hop came from.
name me someone who "stays true" to the roots.
show me a jiggy ass, tri-tawn produced, bling-bling, money hoes and clothes rapper, andi will show you a guy who has a list a mile long of old school artists and founding fathers as influences.

why should they have to aspire be something that they niether are culterally nor musically? why cant they put their own stamp on it? why should they have to be something they are'nt?

why do they need to know the legends? how does that "closed mindedness" effect you as a person? why should they be more "open minded" to satisfy you? they know other things exist; they choose not to pursue it for a reason. it doesnt appeal to them, they dont relate to it, etc.

someone, please give me a SOLID argument that HOLDS WATER here- because, I CHALLENGE, that this whole "you need to know where it came from to know where its going" philosophy is nothing more than a myth. i challenge you guys to give me something solid to support this belief.

what good does me knowing what jam master jay used back in the day? just because pete rock used the sp 1200 for so long, that doesnt mean i will, can afford it, or should, so what does it benifit me, what grand skill/ear/understanding/etc does that little piece of knowledge give me? does that mean my msuic will now be jiggy free because i know about some old school cat who made grimey ass 12 bit beats? no.... my beats will be what they are because of my particluar tastes and influences. i know of alot of artists that i could choose to pattern myself after; i choose particluar people to look to because they appeal to me a certain way, plain and simple.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
Truth i think yer bending my words a little bit here now...Cummon man...Im looking at it from a pretty simple/black&white perspective - basically: if u understand and kno hiphop from tha old days, you RECKOGNIZE and RESPECT what it has PROVIDED as a basis for "all other hiphop" that u hear NOW...Nothing more cryptic than that dude.

So from that i can infer; without sampling - hiphop would and will not simply be tha same(and not for tha better in my opinion). And my point is: I LIKE THAT NESTALGIC QUALITY AND CLASSIC "ROOTED" FEEL THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR ALL THESE YEARS!!....Im not speakin any codes here.
 

FTdub

SP1200 manhandler
ill o.g.
Sorry man, to use Puffy's career as an example of the future of hip hop is weak.. Shit he and Will Smith are the same shit. Sampling will not die, right now it is not as popular as synth beats, but shit comes full circle. Be ready when the hip hop bands come back. Go Stet!
 
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