The reality of takes and comping
- Thread starter Iron Keys
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Fade
The Beat Strangler
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illest o.g.
That's fucking ridiculous. 87. I remember years ago the story about engineers getting Beyonce to sing over and over and then chopping the hell out of everything, even down to the 's' of a word, all to get the best vocal track.
It used to be about punching in and out to fix parts but now comping is so normal but it's extreme. There was also a Rick Beato video a while ago where he was talking about something like and how the singers years ago could actually sing lol. I know it's the norm today but that's why vocals are so overly processed.
It used to be about punching in and out to fix parts but now comping is so normal but it's extreme. There was also a Rick Beato video a while ago where he was talking about something like and how the singers years ago could actually sing lol. I know it's the norm today but that's why vocals are so overly processed.
I definitely do this to some degree. Definitely not to that extent, but if I find a certain cadence or pronunciation that I don't like in a song I stopped bothering with re-recording whole verses out of convenience and started comping. Never really knew what it was called, and it definitely feels dirty to do every time. There's something about banging out a verse all in one go that's really satisfying, and comping kind of ruins that magic for me. I never do it during the session where I'm recording the verses in their entirety. It's always a day to even weeks later. It completely derails my momentum for making the song and I'd never get it finished if I stressed over the minutia right away. Takes me a while to find things I don't like about a verse anyway, I almost always finish a recording session feeling like king shit even if it's not where it needs to be yet. I need time for the analytical side of my brain to pick it apart and knock me back down a few pegs. I definitely find that my voice changes from one day to the next sometimes though, so that could mean a complete re-record anyway, but that's beside the point.
I generally always record 3 full takes regardless so I can layer my vocals if I want to. If I find something I don't like I can cut and adjust it using those anyway if I'm feeling particularly lazy (or I don't have the ability to record because I don't want to disturb the people around me), provided I didn't make the same mistake in them (which is pretty likely). If I want to layer them, but I also just want to cut from one of the other takes I just have to make sure to shift the part that I cut so its at a slightly different timing than the layer that I'm cutting from. If you don't do that then it's just making the layer you cut from louder without adding the texture you get from layering.
A word of advice, if you're just fixing a spot by re-recording and gluing it into the track, don't just try to fit in-between your cuts with the phrase you want to fix. Start rapping at least the bar ahead, trying to match the phrasing you had in that bar, then do your changes. Continuing into the bar after wouldn't hurt either. You want to have enough to work with where you can make your cut in a way that sounds natural. Trying to fit it in without doing that will almost always lead to overlap of your vocals and make it sound worse in the end. It also helps to get the groove for the spot you actually want to fix, at least for me anyway. There's almost always a bit of an ease in when you're starting to rap to hit the downbeat that isn't immediately apparent when its meant to be there, but its definitely apparent when it isn't. God forbid you're trying to fix something on an offbeat and you try to just stab something in. It'd be like trying to fuck a nostril with an 11 inch hammer. It's never going to fit in there. Do more than what you need and cut away the rest.
But, interesting video. I learned a new term at least, so that's a plus.
I generally always record 3 full takes regardless so I can layer my vocals if I want to. If I find something I don't like I can cut and adjust it using those anyway if I'm feeling particularly lazy (or I don't have the ability to record because I don't want to disturb the people around me), provided I didn't make the same mistake in them (which is pretty likely). If I want to layer them, but I also just want to cut from one of the other takes I just have to make sure to shift the part that I cut so its at a slightly different timing than the layer that I'm cutting from. If you don't do that then it's just making the layer you cut from louder without adding the texture you get from layering.
A word of advice, if you're just fixing a spot by re-recording and gluing it into the track, don't just try to fit in-between your cuts with the phrase you want to fix. Start rapping at least the bar ahead, trying to match the phrasing you had in that bar, then do your changes. Continuing into the bar after wouldn't hurt either. You want to have enough to work with where you can make your cut in a way that sounds natural. Trying to fit it in without doing that will almost always lead to overlap of your vocals and make it sound worse in the end. It also helps to get the groove for the spot you actually want to fix, at least for me anyway. There's almost always a bit of an ease in when you're starting to rap to hit the downbeat that isn't immediately apparent when its meant to be there, but its definitely apparent when it isn't. God forbid you're trying to fix something on an offbeat and you try to just stab something in. It'd be like trying to fuck a nostril with an 11 inch hammer. It's never going to fit in there. Do more than what you need and cut away the rest.
But, interesting video. I learned a new term at least, so that's a plus.
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Fade
The Beat Strangler
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See the thing is, it's so common because of the technology. I don't think we'd hear about comping at this level if everything was recorded to tape. Just because we can record vocals 100 times to get the right sound of a word, doesn't mean we should. This is why we never hear about punching in/out.
Fade
The Beat Strangler
Administrator
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LOL yeah it IS terrifying.
I think comping is okay though for sure, especially that we have DAWs that make it super easy but doing it that much and micromanaging each syllable is extreme.
One of the most impressive tracks I've ever heard is even scarier than that. A-F-R-O & NGHTMRE's track Stronger.
They went ahead and recorded straight to vinyl so not only did A-F-R-O have to do the entire track in one take, but the entire live band had to do it in the studio at the same time as he was rapping and the engineer had to tweak shit on the fly. It's not just a beat being recorded out of a mic'd cabinet. If any of them fucked up, the recording would have to be redone on new vinyl.
Fade
The Beat Strangler
Administrator
illest o.g.
That's really impressive.
I really hate chopping multiple takes into one vocal, many takes dont always sound anything the same and its just too much work micro managing it all. More work than its worth, unless you are getting paid a fortune its a bit of a waste of time.
The worst artists to record are the ones that can barely get a sentence out after 10 attempts and record every sentence ten times because they just cant it right the first nine times.
The worst artists to record are the ones that can barely get a sentence out after 10 attempts and record every sentence ten times because they just cant it right the first nine times.
yeah i often find, especially if you're not recording at a pro set up, that when i get different takes from an artist, they sound too different and unusable together --- both performancely and sonically.
I also find it really shocking when a vocalist, particularly a rapper, comes to record and doesn't know their lines. Like, bro, that's your ONLY job.
I get if maybe you have say one tricky line you slip up on. Or you need to warm up to get your voice in its zone. But not being able to rap your own rap... wtf?
Could be a bunch of things, stage fright being a big one. Could also be his voice coming in over the headphones. I still have a hard time with it. I need to hear it, but I also need to hear my voice outside of what my microphone picks up. I almost always shift my right can off of my ear slightly when I'm recording.
Yeah that's definitely a thing. I spend a lot of time between writing and recording personally, so I get things down to a point that I really only read the verse as a reference so I don't screw up a bar. Generally I only read the first word or two of it. It also has the benefit of being able to deliver things nearly identically every time. This is where starting to rap from the bar ahead or further helps alot as well. Like I said earlier though, sometimes my voice changes day to day and that's basically a guarantee that the whole verse will have to be redone.
I only really ever do comping if I don't like the way I phrase something, or god forbid I was going ham and one of the plosives in the bar bashes its way through my pop filter. I never comp for full on mistakes in the verse. If I can't get the whole thing down serviceably in one take then I might as well not be recording it. Granted that's me recording myself on my own gear. I know what I'm about. The dynamic is a bit different when you're talking about someone paying you for studio time I'm sure. I wouldn't know. Never recorded anyone other than my friends, most of which do their own recording at home anyway.
Some people are a pleasure to work with, professionals that cone to the studio ready to record. Others not so much, but they are paying for their time, going all in on the comping is mental, but hey if they want to pay for that time its up to them. If they are a paying customer its up to them how they spend that time.
I often refer back to this story, but I was shadowing engineer at the studio, and this dad dropped his son and friends there to record their band.
The engineer, whos is very gently spoken and polite told them that they should cancel the session and go home and practise to a metronome. He told them he could pull all their stuff on time but it would take so long and also not sound so great as a result due to how off-time they were.
Really you need to be coming to your sessions prepared.
InsideOutBeats
ILLIEN
It’s all mind set.
Same for me on the Mpc either I intuitively finger drum a beat or a melody spot on on repeat , hit record and fuck it up straight away.
That’s some mental shit right there and I have to laugh and chat with myself, relax and then it flows back in.
Makes me think if that’s at home alone then imagine the mental toughness and self belief for performers going out to masses playing live.
Proves we are sometimes our own worst enemy and block ourselves through self doubt. The greats almost always have such high self belief bordering on arrogance but if you don’t believe in your self then you won’t get that far.
the other thing i hate, is, i'll be playing the keys at a beautiful velocity, then suddenly on REC I'm like hitting them x2 hard or then so soft they don't register it's like -.-It’s all mind set.
Same for me on the Mpc either I intuitively finger drum a beat or a melody spot on on repeat , hit record and fuck it up straight away.
That’s some mental shit right there and I have to laugh and chat with myself, relax and then it flows back in.
Makes me think if that’s at home alone then imagine the mental toughness and self belief for performers going out to masses playing live.
Proves we are sometimes our own worst enemy and block ourselves through self doubt. The greats almost always have such high self belief bordering on arrogance but if you don’t believe in your self then you won’t get that far.
I've started opting to set up like a longer loop window, hit record and just play play play until I play something natural.
I would use the takes/layers function, but that gets really messy, especially when you hit just before the start of the next take or such.
InsideOutBeats
ILLIEN
Yeah, for myself all I can say it’s some sort of performance anxiety (subconsciously?) once I hit record. It’s stupid but just happens from time to time.
Saying that, I have a couple of beers before and I’m relaxed mentally and don’t seem to have the same problem. Like the alcohol says ‘fuck off self doubt I ain’t listening!’
(Not advocating alcohol here kids)
Saying that, I have a couple of beers before and I’m relaxed mentally and don’t seem to have the same problem. Like the alcohol says ‘fuck off self doubt I ain’t listening!’
(Not advocating alcohol here kids)
