There are no such thing as ghosts.

Cell 2Dee

Bloody Fingers
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 110
An interesting read that I just found, check it out.

What is it about the thought of supernatural things that intrigues people so much? I should say alleged supernatural things. Maybe it’s not intrigue. Maybe it’s something else…

People are intellectually lazy! Why do people believe in the supernatural? ESP, psychics, Astrology, ghosts, etc? Because it’s easy to just say that something is caused by supernatural forces, rather than to actually think about things, to do a little research or even perform an experiment… to actually find out what the cause of something is. It’s really not that hard.

I want to talk about ghosts for now. What are ghosts? Or, what do people purport ghosts to be? Basically, what survives of our soul or spirit (whatever you want to call it) after we die. Okay. Let’s take a look at just what this would imply.

In order for something to exist, it has to consist of something. To start with, everything consists of atoms. From there, we know that atoms emit energy. And energy has certain limits, as does matter, or atoms. The first thing we know for certain is that one object cannot pass through another object and retain its original form. There is a certain topic in quantum mechanics called “quantum tunneling” which deals with this very topic. The quantum tunneling principle basically says that it may be possible for the energy from an object, namely on the atomic level – not automobiles or people, may pass through another object.

It follows that if ghosts are real, in that they consist of matter, then they cannot pass through walls. It is physically impossible.

The next topic to deal with are the claims that people make that ghosts throw objects, move chairs, open and close doors, etc. These claims make believers chose one or the other. Either ghosts are physical beings, or they are not. Either they consist of atoms, or they don’t. We know this is true because in order for a ghost to move or throw anything, or to turn a door handle, friction is required. And friction is caused by two surfaces working against each other. Simple physics… not to be confused with psychics.

Because friction is required, then any claim that a ghost caused some object to move locks one into saying that a ghost is a solid object, or that at least it is atomic in structure and is in some phase of matter, i.e. solid, liquid or gas… probably not plasma. And if this is the case, then the ghost could not “become invisible” unless it was bound by specific temperatures. Meaning, whatever material the ghost consisted of has a particular temperature at which it changes states of matter – boils, melts, evaporates, etc. And the way to make the ghost visible is to simply change its form from a gas to a solid… to simply lower the temperature to make its material “solid.” And with everything we know about matter, if you were to bring an actual human being to its boiling point… well, you know what would happen.

To say that the ghost is not a solid or physical object totally goes against everything that we know about science. If one claims that a ghost is not made of matter, or atoms, then it totally throws out the possibility of its existence. Everything we know about energy and matter totally contradicts this theory. In order to interact with reality, it has to consist of something. And if these alleged ghosts do consist of something other than any kind of matter or energy that we know of, then they do not even enter into our reality. They cannot interact with us on any possible level and are outside the realm of science. The most one could say, in this situation, is that they were agnostic in terms of belief in ghosts, because they would be neither visible, nor noticeable in any circumstance. They could neither show themselves to us, nor could they interact with any object in order to “show us a sign.” They would be likened to the pink Unicorn on the dark side of the Moon. No one is there to see it, and it doesn’t effect us in any way, so whether or not there is a pink Unicorn on the dark side of the Moon means nothing to us.

So what do we do? Do we rewrite every book on science, physics and biology to support the wild claims of a few people who have never actually proven any in any scientific way? Or, do we simply disregard these claims as the result of the inner workings of these people’s imaginations, and rely on thousands of years of human observation, and hundreds of years of compounded, unrefuted scientific knowledge? You tell me.

Then we come to these “Ghost Hunter” shows on television. These people are, to start with, not scientists. They say so themselves. They have an agenda. To prove that ghosts do, in fact, exist. Any evidence that points in any other direction is disregarded. And look at the equipment they bring to these sites: Geiger counters, Infrared surface thermometers. Are they looking for nuclear fallout? They wave that stupid Infrared surface thermometer around wildly and say, “Look, the temperature is constantly changing.” Yeah, no kidding. You don’t know how to use that thing. It’s for measuring the temperature of a solid surface, not for waving around the room like a magic wand. Of course you’re going to get odd readings.

The main problem is that they never actually do any real scientific research. The first main component in scientific research is hypothesis testing. Say, for example, you believe there might be ghosts in a certain location. Ok. So what are these ghosts purportedly doing? Moving an object around the room? Making the temperature change? Well, design an experiment that aims to disprove that theory. That’s how the Scientific Method works. You don’t start with a conclusion and look for every bit of evidence that supports that claim, then disregard anything that doesn’t support it. It’s the same thing with “Creation Scientists.” They want to prove that God created everything, so that’s the only evidence they look for. When they see that biology and genetics prove that people evolved from other forms of life, they throw that evidence away because they aren’t interested in the truth. They want to prove that “God did it.”

In this way, the Scientific Method doesn’t work for ghost hunters. These guys go in there with a whole bunch of crap they bought at Radio Shack, stuff that isn’t designed to “detect ghosts.” Then they go through looking for things they can’t explain. Like why they get electromagnetic readings when they’re in a room with an electrical panel. Hmmm… I wonder why? Could it be that there is electricity in the room? Then, in the true scientific spirit, instead of trying to figure out what caused the strange occurrence (say, for example, having the electric company shut off the power to the house, and then performing another reading), they simply assume it was a ghost causing these readings. How intellectually lazy these people are. It’s nonsense.

Then there are people who claim to have had very real experiences which include things such as a ghost attacking them, accompanied by the feeling of paralysis, being unable to breathe, etc. These experiences are very vivid to those who have them.

These experiences are easily explained. Here is a link to a study on the topic, although this study was done on those who claimed to be abducted by UFOs. But the situations are similar enough to note this study. Both are relatively similar experiences.

Basically, what happens is when one falls asleep, there is a part of the brain stem that paralyzes the body once you enter REM sleep. This happens so that you don’t act out your dreams. The frightening thing that can happen is that the sleeping person wakes up, but this part of the brain stem fails to release its paralyzing effect on the body. The person cannot move, possibly has a very difficult time breathing, and also possibly is still experiencing the dream they were having. It’s called a waking dream, and the person experiencing it is totally convinced that what is happening in their mind is happening in reality.

The basic point that I want to make is that instead of immediately jumping to the supernatural conclusion, try doing some experimentation to actually discover what really caused what you claim to be ghost activity. You’ll be surprised at what a little research will reveal.

Do some research and read a book.

Link to article - http://godkillzyou.wordpress.com/2007/07/20/189/
 

dacalion

Hands Of FIRE!
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 259
Personally, I dont believe in ghost, and obviously, nor does the author of that story. I noticed that even he contradicted himself several times throughout his write up.

After reading the first paragraph, I thought 2 things...1. Religion was gonna play some part in this. 2. This is gonna lead to Scientology in some way. I was correct.

We all have the ability to take a subject and find scientific reasoning to either support or disclaim it. Im willing to bet that you could surf the internet and find a write up saying the exact opposite of what this person is saying and be convinced that ghost do exist. That shouldnt be a surprised to anyone but somebody will take what this person said and run with it just because it makes logical sense.

Eventhough I dont believe in ghost, I do believe that there are things in this world that we simply cant explain. The existence or non-existence of ghost is one of them. Its been proven that humans only use 10% of their brains. Im not convinced that the other 90% is just sitting there dormant. If you really look at it, you will find that having an open mind on subjects like "ghosts", "religion", "UFOs" and so on...it will eventually bring a clearer understanding to who you are as a person.

dac
 
I couldnt explain how the toilet used to flush itself. Or the recurring nightmares.
And seeing my aunt waving goodbye on my landing with a man I have never seen before, before I found out she had commited suicide.
I cant explain these things, just because we cant quantify something it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
 

Kontents

I like Gearslutz
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 5
I couldnt explain how the toilet used to flush itself. Or the recurring nightmares.
And seeing my aunt waving goodbye on my landing with a man I have never seen before, before I found out she had commited suicide.
I cant explain these things, just because we cant quantify something it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

Is a landing your bed?
 

UNORTHODOX

Father Timeless
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 44
"Wisdom is knowing and accepting you really dont know anything at all"

We dont really know yet (scientifically).
 

Cell 2Dee

Bloody Fingers
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 110
I couldnt explain how the toilet used to flush itself.
The douglas valve was fucked on the toilet, call a local plumber to fit a new flush mechanism. I'm an electrician but go with my boss on a lot of plumbing jobs, it's a common thing.

Or the recurring nightmares.
It's what happens, you have a nightmare, and keep having it because it's scary shit that's at the back of your mind.

And seeing my aunt waving goodbye on my landing with a man I have never seen before, before I found out she had commited suicide.
I don't like giving my opinion on this sort of thing in case of upsetting the person, my boss says the same thing about his dad and he didn't like my opinion, so I've learnt to keep my mouth shut haha.

I'm in no way demeaning or denouncing your beliefs, but there is 2 out of 3 explanations for you.
 

SirSedric

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
I think the problem with listening to or reading anyone else's opinion on this sort of thing is that we have no way of knowing what inspired him/her to write this.

The article posted is very clearly influenced by the TV show "Ghost Hunters"... which is a TV show... not a demonstration of the scientific method. To try and denounce methods of detecting things of a supernatural nature because you saw it on a show and didn't like is no more logical or scientific than what he's trying to argue against....

There are many organizations out there that investigate this sort of thing using the scientific method... they're just not on TV so this guy doesn't know about them... Anytime you take information from just one source, you are bound to be misinformed...
 

SirSedric

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
The fact is that some things are so unbelievable that you will never believe till you see it for yourself.

Definitely true. Also, we all have very different minds that quite possibly are capable of perceiving different things... So who knows? Maybe you and me can see paranormal activity and other people's brains are just wired differently so they can't perceive it, let alone believe it..
 

Ash Holmz

The Bed-Stuy Fly Guy
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 207
Ive had 2 so called "waking dreams" (or should i nightmares) in my life. they were both scary as shit and i will remember them both as long as live!! i wont get into details, but WOW. The crazy shit is you cant even tell if ur sleeping or not. thats how real it is. in both cases i was most definitely paralyzed and unable to move. to this day its hard to believe that i was just dreaming. its actually comforting to read this article and see there was a scientific explanation for what happened to me. Ive been scracthing my head for years wondering about those experiences.
 

Cell 2Dee

Bloody Fingers
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 110
Ive had 2 so called "waking dreams" (or should i nightmares) in my life. they were both scary as shit and i will remember them both as long as live!! i wont get into details, but WOW. The crazy shit is you cant even tell if ur sleeping or not. thats how real it is. in both cases i was most definitely paralyzed and unable to move. to this day its hard to believe that i was just dreaming. its actually comforting to read this article and see there was a scientific explanation for what happened to me. Ive been scracthing my head for years wondering about those experiences.

Damn, sounds intense and you haven't even gone into the story yet.

And 2GooD, you're probably right, but my beliefs don't even allow the possibility of ghosts, so until I see what looks like a 'ghost' and I've gone down every natural route before turning to the supernatural like the piece says, i'll still not believe in them. Not that I knock people who do believe in them, different people find comfort in different things and explanations.
 

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
I stopped reading after "The first thing we know for certain is that one object cannot pass through another object and retain its original form. "

This is not true, atoms can be in 2 places at once and when you get down to quantum physics you can see how things like "ghosts" can be possibel, its obvious that the author has never actually seen in unexplainable ish..

Everything I have ever experienced I immediately was groping for an answer to , but there was none and it was in fact "impossible" therefore we have to throw it into the supernatural catagory.
 
Damn, sounds intense and you haven't even gone into the story yet.

And 2GooD, you're probably right, but my beliefs don't even allow the possibility of ghosts, so until I see what looks like a 'ghost' and I've gone down every natural route before turning to the supernatural like the piece says, i'll still not believe in them. Not that I knock people who do believe in them, different people find comfort in different things and explanations.

haha, I have heard a few lines from some of the skeptics, some of them make me laugh. ^^^ thats a prime skeptic quote right there. I find no comfort in hauntings, I have studied supernatural things from since living in a haunted house. The subject has interested me for years.
Is it about finding comfort? No. Its about finding truth in the world.
Im just very curious as to "What Does It All Mean?" and "Why?" and have learned a lot from science, but it doesnt have all the answers. And some of the "theories" I have heard from scientists are just as fucking crazy as what religion has spouted. The prime example being "man-made global warming".
Some scientists whole career is based on the fact that ghosts do not exist, they are paid to explain away every unexplainable incident. Now if anything supernatural were to happen that they couldnt explain away then they would be out of a job.
James Randi, is an illusionist and famous skeptic for offering $1million to anyone that can prove supernatural powers, he has been taken up on the offer in the past, but yet refused a few people from even taking part.
He is the fraudster, on his own admission, and to be an impartial scientist you need to not be biased.
With $1million at stake how can he not be biased.
Another skeptic I have heard who always gets brought into all these supernatural arguments from ghosts to ufos to crop circles, is Nick Pope. Some of his views I agree with, but others I do not.
His whole career depends on the fact that ghosts arent real and can be explained away with other visible phenomenon, same as UFO's(which in most cases can be explained away). But the fact remains that some of them cannot be explained away, and thus they become unexplained mysteries.
As for my own personal belief in spirits, I think they exist, in the form of negative/positive energies which can and have been recorded/photographed/felt/heard. Just because there is nothing to explain the quantifiable evidence, like drops in temperature, smells, sickening feelings. That doesnt mean there isnt something there causing it. Im just as skeptical as the next guy about most things, but I do have an open mind, and have experienced some strange shit for myself, having had some bad experiences with what to me were ghosts.
My mum used to tell me, I used to tell her about a man that came and sat on the end of my bed and talked to me. I was too young for me to remember, but that was when it all started, and it all ended the day we moved out of that house. I have never had any dreams like those ones and never had a supernatural experience since. Based on personal experience, I think there is something in it.
 

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