yo, man , im sorta frustrated I got a question about making drums in rap, I mean, I got the reason program, and It seems like when I make drum samples on the Redrum Comp, it sounds so empty, most my drums just sound snare, kick drum, kick drum, snare, maybe if im dangerous i may throw in a high hat...and i just added a tamborine... but it sounds so empty. like my drum track isnt filled enough with patches....any suggestion from veteran producers out there who know a good about laying good hip hop drums? thanks...
yo i need help with drums...
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vitaminman
IllMuzik Staff
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
YEESSS!!!!! Someone finally speaks truth!!!!
This will draw some heat, but I don't care: drums in today's hip hop sound thin, boring, sporadic and uninspiring...I'll lay the blame on poor programming due to producers rushing tracks. They spend 5 minutes banging out boom-chick-boom-boom-chick sequences with maybe some 8th note hats, loop it 345 times and think their beat is hot...
There is no one right way to program drums, but there are a few things which help make them sound more 'full'...
1. Using real drum samples. Not ones off synths, most of them are dry and isolated, I mean drums recorded in rooms with different mics. If you sample a cool drum riff from a real song, you can break up the different elements and save them as individual drum hits and load them into a sampler. You can also rearrange them in something like a wave editor and render out new patterns.
2. Use effects creatively. Try to imagine how a real drum kit sounds on a record: high percussion is usually panned out to the sides, snares a little off center, kicks dead center. Run the snare through a light reverb, run the hats through a light delay or echo...the echo will REALLY fill things up!
3. Compress the drums with a software compressor. I don't know if reason has one or not...if it doesn't, arrange your drum loops in a program like Cool Edit and use the compressor in it.
4. Layer it with synth drums. Make your existing kicks 'boomier' by triggering low frequency sine waves (40-60hz) with something like an envelope follower, or just trigger them in another MIDI track.
5. Program better drum patterns in your sequencer. Boom-chick-boom-boom-chick gets really old after a while, try listening to a real drummer play and figure out how he's playing, then try to replicate that in your sequences. The best music to listen to for this is old jazz or funk. My favorite drummers are Clyde Stublefield, Mike Joyce, Steve Shelly...I listen to these guys a lot and try to imagine them playing in front of me.
You can read about some of the funkiest drummers here:
http://www.funky-stuff.com/drummers/index.htm
Take care,
Nick
This will draw some heat, but I don't care: drums in today's hip hop sound thin, boring, sporadic and uninspiring...I'll lay the blame on poor programming due to producers rushing tracks. They spend 5 minutes banging out boom-chick-boom-boom-chick sequences with maybe some 8th note hats, loop it 345 times and think their beat is hot...
There is no one right way to program drums, but there are a few things which help make them sound more 'full'...
1. Using real drum samples. Not ones off synths, most of them are dry and isolated, I mean drums recorded in rooms with different mics. If you sample a cool drum riff from a real song, you can break up the different elements and save them as individual drum hits and load them into a sampler. You can also rearrange them in something like a wave editor and render out new patterns.
2. Use effects creatively. Try to imagine how a real drum kit sounds on a record: high percussion is usually panned out to the sides, snares a little off center, kicks dead center. Run the snare through a light reverb, run the hats through a light delay or echo...the echo will REALLY fill things up!
3. Compress the drums with a software compressor. I don't know if reason has one or not...if it doesn't, arrange your drum loops in a program like Cool Edit and use the compressor in it.
4. Layer it with synth drums. Make your existing kicks 'boomier' by triggering low frequency sine waves (40-60hz) with something like an envelope follower, or just trigger them in another MIDI track.
5. Program better drum patterns in your sequencer. Boom-chick-boom-boom-chick gets really old after a while, try listening to a real drummer play and figure out how he's playing, then try to replicate that in your sequences. The best music to listen to for this is old jazz or funk. My favorite drummers are Clyde Stublefield, Mike Joyce, Steve Shelly...I listen to these guys a lot and try to imagine them playing in front of me.
You can read about some of the funkiest drummers here:
http://www.funky-stuff.com/drummers/index.htm
Take care,
Nick
Dam, Nick and God alway have good advice...
Yo Im no veteran since ive only been messin with software(reason primarly), no hardware yet
, for about a little under a year...But ive picked up alot of tips from tha following:
1. take time to listen and anylize other rap songs that you emulate and try to study tha drum patterns to get a feel for where you want to take it.
2. try focusing on tha dynamics of your drums...when a real drummer plays - he doesnt hit every drum at tha same velocity.(this function is real easy automate in reason by a simple switch in tha redrum).
3. Also, like God mentioned...layering other similar drums on top of one another can really help to add depth and that punch your going for.(I actually just started doing this and i can vouch that it does help alot).
4. Percausion is by far one of tha most useful parts of your drumkit...with tha right percuasion you can create a song within just tha beat.
5. Try downloading other peoples songs that are in reason format so that you can take a look at their rack and see what they did to get tha sound in there songs.
6. And tha last thing you can do to maybe help - is to create a seperate mixer just for your redrum and slave every drum channel to individual channels on tha mixer...this way later - after your your kit is picked out, you can eq each drum a little. (add a little more bass to tha snares for a buffed up snap...etc.)
7. oh yeah - theres compression too, but this machine only gets better with time and practice...you can also really fuck up your track with too much compression.
hope my rookie skills have helped a little.
peace.
-Steeze
Yo Im no veteran since ive only been messin with software(reason primarly), no hardware yet
, for about a little under a year...But ive picked up alot of tips from tha following:1. take time to listen and anylize other rap songs that you emulate and try to study tha drum patterns to get a feel for where you want to take it.
2. try focusing on tha dynamics of your drums...when a real drummer plays - he doesnt hit every drum at tha same velocity.(this function is real easy automate in reason by a simple switch in tha redrum).
3. Also, like God mentioned...layering other similar drums on top of one another can really help to add depth and that punch your going for.(I actually just started doing this and i can vouch that it does help alot).
4. Percausion is by far one of tha most useful parts of your drumkit...with tha right percuasion you can create a song within just tha beat.
5. Try downloading other peoples songs that are in reason format so that you can take a look at their rack and see what they did to get tha sound in there songs.
6. And tha last thing you can do to maybe help - is to create a seperate mixer just for your redrum and slave every drum channel to individual channels on tha mixer...this way later - after your your kit is picked out, you can eq each drum a little. (add a little more bass to tha snares for a buffed up snap...etc.)
7. oh yeah - theres compression too, but this machine only gets better with time and practice...you can also really fuck up your track with too much compression.
hope my rookie skills have helped a little.
peace.
-Steeze
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
welllllllllllll. .... .. . . ... .
heres what The Truth has to say.......
first of all, do not hesitate to experiment with your sounds. speed up snares and thin them out with eq to make new hi hats.... layering s always a good thing, but they will still sound plain if all you are doing is fattening things up and filling space with echos and reverb ( this isnt a knock on vitaminman's suggestion- i'm just saying that you should use the effects as an accent to your track, not as a mask for the drum sections shortcomings...) use various percussion sounds, the tamborine was a good start, but there shakers, triangles, etc., and there are different types of these sounds...
try and throw rolls on the snares.. do study live drummers! experiment with different time signatures, things like that. remember that you do have cymbols and crashes as well....
the other thing to remember is that the instrumentation you use will often determine how your drum section winds up in the end. somtimes, once you have added your instruments along with the bass, you will end up stripping down the drum track to create a better compliment to the rest of the song. remember, less can be more at times; dont assume that every song has to be complex, because that just isnt the case.
what i do many times i start out with the dirtier, more "underground" oriented kicks and snares as the foundation of the track, so it's like this:
boom-chick-b-boom-chick-boom-chick... just basic to start, but then i will use the hats on another midi track to do the open-and-close thing, with an acoustic snare sample behind the original snare, and add whatever percussion sound i want- claves, tringle, whatever, at lower levels then the rest. i will use the acoustic sample at very low levels for rolls and just fills here and there.....
also keep in mind the depth that stereo will add to the mix. say your synth snare is panned 10 to the left, you could put the acoustic snare at 20 to the right and make the reverb on the acousitic sweep hard to the left.... things like that. anyhow, this was my two cents, i hope it was of some value to you.
heres what The Truth has to say.......
first of all, do not hesitate to experiment with your sounds. speed up snares and thin them out with eq to make new hi hats.... layering s always a good thing, but they will still sound plain if all you are doing is fattening things up and filling space with echos and reverb ( this isnt a knock on vitaminman's suggestion- i'm just saying that you should use the effects as an accent to your track, not as a mask for the drum sections shortcomings...) use various percussion sounds, the tamborine was a good start, but there shakers, triangles, etc., and there are different types of these sounds...
try and throw rolls on the snares.. do study live drummers! experiment with different time signatures, things like that. remember that you do have cymbols and crashes as well....
the other thing to remember is that the instrumentation you use will often determine how your drum section winds up in the end. somtimes, once you have added your instruments along with the bass, you will end up stripping down the drum track to create a better compliment to the rest of the song. remember, less can be more at times; dont assume that every song has to be complex, because that just isnt the case.
what i do many times i start out with the dirtier, more "underground" oriented kicks and snares as the foundation of the track, so it's like this:
boom-chick-b-boom-chick-boom-chick... just basic to start, but then i will use the hats on another midi track to do the open-and-close thing, with an acoustic snare sample behind the original snare, and add whatever percussion sound i want- claves, tringle, whatever, at lower levels then the rest. i will use the acoustic sample at very low levels for rolls and just fills here and there.....
also keep in mind the depth that stereo will add to the mix. say your synth snare is panned 10 to the left, you could put the acoustic snare at 20 to the right and make the reverb on the acousitic sweep hard to the left.... things like that. anyhow, this was my two cents, i hope it was of some value to you.
Questions
"can break up the different elements and save them as individual drum hits and load them into a sampler"
HOw do I do that? (using Reason 2.5)
((3. Also, like God mentioned...layering other similar drums on top of one another can really help to add depth and that punch your going for.(I actually just started doing this and i can vouch that it does help alot).)
How do I Layer, drums, do i add drums upon drums..like doubling the patch with another patch on top of the older one?
((Make sure to layer snares and kick drums for a fatter sound. Try an analogue kick from say, a jazz kit, then fatten it with a 909 kick. Throw more layers until you are satisfied. Do the same for snares.))
oye im toatly lost here I think I need to read a book on music production...909 kick?....anway thank you Truth told duece , God, Viatiman man, and made for your respones im looking towards your next ones......
"can break up the different elements and save them as individual drum hits and load them into a sampler"
HOw do I do that? (using Reason 2.5)
((3. Also, like God mentioned...layering other similar drums on top of one another can really help to add depth and that punch your going for.(I actually just started doing this and i can vouch that it does help alot).)
How do I Layer, drums, do i add drums upon drums..like doubling the patch with another patch on top of the older one?
((Make sure to layer snares and kick drums for a fatter sound. Try an analogue kick from say, a jazz kit, then fatten it with a 909 kick. Throw more layers until you are satisfied. Do the same for snares.))
oye im toatly lost here I think I need to read a book on music production...909 kick?....anway thank you Truth told duece , God, Viatiman man, and made for your respones im looking towards your next ones......
E
Equality 7-2521
Guest
Are you using a 64 beat pattern? If you use a 64 beat pattern you will be able to get more variety in the timing of the beats in between the kick and snair.
When you only have a 16 beat pattern it tends to sound as you described.......boom-chich-boom-chick-boom-chich etc. When you change to 64 beat pattern you will have to speed up the beat too.
This is what happened to me and it fixed the problem.
Excuse my advise if its not what your talking about.
When you only have a 16 beat pattern it tends to sound as you described.......boom-chich-boom-chick-boom-chich etc. When you change to 64 beat pattern you will have to speed up the beat too.
This is what happened to me and it fixed the problem.
Excuse my advise if its not what your talking about.
I see what your saying...tha terminology can be confusing i suppose if your new to hearing stuff like 909 and so forth. Basically, it all makes more sense as time progresses, but yeah - your right, it couldnt hurt to look some stuff up or simply read tha users manual. When V says a 909 kick drum...hes refering to a kind of drum kick from a certain kind of kit.
Youve heard of a 808 right?...Well theres others as well, like 707, 808, and 909. From my observations they all seem to vary in tone and deepness...808 seems to be tha bassiest and is also commonly used in party songs complimented by tha traditional 808 hand clap and hihat provided in many older and newer sound banks and kits.
When i was adding to what God said about layering tha drums - your right on top of it. You simply match both drums up together so when they hit - they hit at tha same time...This is usefull say when you have one kick that lacks bump, but has a nice pop at tha beginning that you like...So next, you add a 909 like V said, or what ever more dense deeper kick it is that you think compliments tha other. In tha end after a little eq'ing and level adjusting you should have a nice custom kick sound that you cultivated on your own.
Read what truth said a little more too...he added alot of good advice to tha thread that is all pertinant as well.
Peace homie...hope that clarifys....
Steeze
Youve heard of a 808 right?...Well theres others as well, like 707, 808, and 909. From my observations they all seem to vary in tone and deepness...808 seems to be tha bassiest and is also commonly used in party songs complimented by tha traditional 808 hand clap and hihat provided in many older and newer sound banks and kits.
When i was adding to what God said about layering tha drums - your right on top of it. You simply match both drums up together so when they hit - they hit at tha same time...This is usefull say when you have one kick that lacks bump, but has a nice pop at tha beginning that you like...So next, you add a 909 like V said, or what ever more dense deeper kick it is that you think compliments tha other. In tha end after a little eq'ing and level adjusting you should have a nice custom kick sound that you cultivated on your own.
Read what truth said a little more too...he added alot of good advice to tha thread that is all pertinant as well.
Peace homie...hope that clarifys....
Steeze
C
Copenhagen
Guest
Mr. Black, I think what Nick meant by breaking up the different elements and saving them as individual drums was to load the whole drum riff into an editor (not reason but e.g. Cool Edit, SoundForge etc) and then cut everything but example the snare out and save that snare. This is how a lot of us who started out with just the sounds included in our software music program started out. We just stole single drums and sounds from other's music, mostly from old soul and funk records.
What you can do in Reason, is e.g. load a Dr. rex loop and then only play the note that plays the kick (remove the remaining segments of the loop). Also, if you have an external loop (one that is not in .rex format) you can load it into the NN-XT, not via the 'load patch' button but via the 'single file" button further down...then you can alter the start and end of the sample, so that e.g. a dum riff that goes boom-chick-bo-boom-chick can be narrowed down to just chick (being the snare) by setting the sample to start just before the snare hits and to end just after. In the NN-XT you can also play drums, which is very good as you have many effects etc to choose from that you can add to the drums. In the NN-XT you can also set it to change between the velocity of e.g. a drum automatically, thereby making the drums more natural as a real drummer never hits the exact same velocity for each drum.
What you can do in Reason, is e.g. load a Dr. rex loop and then only play the note that plays the kick (remove the remaining segments of the loop). Also, if you have an external loop (one that is not in .rex format) you can load it into the NN-XT, not via the 'load patch' button but via the 'single file" button further down...then you can alter the start and end of the sample, so that e.g. a dum riff that goes boom-chick-bo-boom-chick can be narrowed down to just chick (being the snare) by setting the sample to start just before the snare hits and to end just after. In the NN-XT you can also play drums, which is very good as you have many effects etc to choose from that you can add to the drums. In the NN-XT you can also set it to change between the velocity of e.g. a drum automatically, thereby making the drums more natural as a real drummer never hits the exact same velocity for each drum.
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
make sure that you do the layering on different tracks, for effects, panning, etc., as well as dropping certain things out in the middle of a song.....
A
andrzej00
Guest
I sample drums from vinyl. Then I work on them compressing, putting on a tape. I make a lot of things and after that it sounds fat. One guy said that already before a wack drum could be may be a better wack drum but it still will a wack drum
