Production opinions? Lil' Wayne - Lollipop.

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
The cycle fades out. There will be a resurgence of "real" hip-hop (which will still be marketed). They've been trying to crack legit artists from the underground scene, El-P fucked up with Aesop Rock, but there are others.

The thing is:

Hip hop has reached a "maturity" level, and its "novelty" has worn off as an uncouth/street/gangsta artform.

Don't be naive to think that once hiphop is picked up as a legit money making tool, that cats won't exploit that. This Lil' Weezy song is all about the 'exploitation' part.

People will get sick of this style, and another will be pushed out. There's a lot of creative cats on the internet to sign or get production deals with.

Don't be naive and claim high artistic integrity when shit like "Lollipop" sells. You should at least try to understand WHY it sells. For commercial purposes, the songwriter/artist has to write, as a friend told me: "so the dumbest person you know will like the song."

There isn't enough competition anymore in the major leagues to justify putting out something that may not have an ROI. But there is a definite indie movement, and it's coming. When you get at the upper levels of the big leagues, things tend to become "cliquish" and a few producers with their ghostwriters control a ton of the songs coming out.

Think about it.
 

skidflow

Boom Bap is precious art
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 214
Don't be naive and claim high artistic integrity when shit like "Lollipop" sells. You should at least try to understand WHY it sells.
Think about it.
Just because you hear this shit over the radio a million times a day do't mean that its selling. He might sell a bunch of ring tones though because I'm surrounded by alot of music heads and know one that I know has this in their collection. Why buy Lil Wayne's music...he comes out with a mixtape like every other month...which you could download for free somewhere probably.
 

skidflow

Boom Bap is precious art
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 214
My question to you would be whats "real" Hip Hop? Hell even alot of "real' Hip Hop artist be on some "real' fake ish.
Realism is a feel. You cant explain it...you just feel it. I used to think Public Enemy was real as hell until I seen Flavor Flav's first season of Flavor of Love. It goes against what Public Enemy stood for back in the day. So what God says makes alot of sense. They came into the game with good intentions but got sidetracked along the way. Now I will never buy a Public Enemy Record again. Then you got Gangstarr...been in the game for about 15 years or so and have never really changed their formula. When these cats drop something I'm on it because it has that certain level of dirtyness to it. The beat patterns are hard and they damn near make you break ya neck. Then Guru's always dropping Knowledge on um. See groups like this continue on to do shows well into their 50's...especilly overseas....see T-La Rock.
 

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
Realism is a feel. You cant explain it...you just feel it. I used to think Public Enemy was real as hell until I seen Flavor Flav's first season of Flavor of Love. It goes against what Public Enemy stood for back in the day. So what God says makes alot of sense. They came into the game with good intentions but got sidetracked along the way. Now I will never buy a Public Enemy Record again. Then you got Gangstarr...been in the game for about 15 years or so and have never really changed their formula. When these cats drop something I'm on it because it has that certain level of dirtyness to it. The beat patterns are hard and they damn near make you break ya neck. Then Guru's always dropping Knowledge on um. See groups like this continue on to do shows well into their 50's...especilly overseas....see T-La Rock.

Who whoa whoa, dont think that Flav is PE, Flav has always been the oppositte of chuck.
Chuck is NOT pleased about Flavor of Love at all, flav has more or less been the type of guy the chuck has been talking about the whole time lol...
Chuck is always real, I mean hes a real person and no they dont go shoot white people and instagate riots but they do drop knowledge.Flav has never been about droppin knowledge , he just acts the fool, thats his role..
I know some of the PE people and they are cool as hell and drop serious knowledge for free all the time.
Guru is the shit.
 

skidflow

Boom Bap is precious art
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 214
Chuck is always real, I mean hes a real person and no they dont go shoot white people and instagate riots but they do drop knowledge.Flav has never been about droppin knowledge , he just acts the fool, thats his role..
Yeah I feel you but even back in the day when Flav came out with his solo shit...his shit was comical but some of his music still had a message( 911 is a joke ) And Chuck...he sued B.I. G's estate for using his vocals in "Ten crack commandments" Dj PREMEIRE even scolded Chuck for this. Chuck's excuse was "the negative" message that came with the use of his sample. Chuck knows better than anyone that that was just art. Plus the B.I.G was already dead for christ sake.
 

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
Yeah I feel you but even back in the day when Flav came out with his solo shit...his shit was comical but some of his music still had a message( 911 is a joke ) And Chuck...he sued B.I. G's estate for using his vocals in "Ten crack commandments" Dj PREMEIRE even scolded Chuck for this. Chuck's excuse was "the negative" message that came with the use of his sample. Chuck knows better than anyone that that was just art. Plus the B.I.G was already dead for christ sake.

lol, yeah I think its wrong for rappers to sue over using samples of one another.
Chuck is real peeps tho. Gotta understand tho what PE says and what BIG was saying are polar opposites, I think it was to make a point, not to make money.
 

Krazyfingaz

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 2
. Then Guru's always dropping Knowledge on um.
And thats what my concept of "Real" Hip Hop IS, droping knowledge telling stories and kicking something most if not everybody can relate to, not that bullshit I hear nowadays. but alot of cats cant decipher the 2 because like skid said they get too sidetracked buy(not a type o) the glamor and glitz and they mistate TRUE art with Ring tone Records . Just because you came up with a catchy hook that a certain demographic can grasp is NOT genius i dont care what anyone says. Next to no rappers that i've heard in the last 3 to 7 years have said NOTHING worth giving any spins hell imma go out on a limb and say since when the score droped. so what Loli Pop is a hot "club or cross over" record its the same formula that 98% of the Mainstream and some underground artist are using and have been using for years, only because of the marketing.
 

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
It's a shitty song. Knock on it all you want. The dumbasses at Cash Money must really be stupid to make millions of bucks off the ringtone of a shitty song.

They understand that the public is:

A. Stupid
B. Will buy anything you market to them.
C. Always market to the lowest common denominator in pop/hip-pop

If I want real hip-hop I put in some M.U.R.S. or El-P. Don't knock me cuz I'm telling it to you the way it is.
 

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
It's a shitty song. Knock on it all you want. The dumbasses at Cash Money must really be stupid to make millions of bucks off the ringtone of a shitty song.

They understand that the public is:

A. Stupid
B. Will buy anything you market to them.
C. Always market to the lowest common denominator in pop/hip-pop

If I want real hip-hop I put in some M.U.R.S. or El-P. Don't knock me cuz I'm telling it to you the way it is.

as usual your correct, just venting is all..

Ive actually started making a whole branch of trax now aimed at the lowest common denomintor..
In fact I may call that whole collection or album lowest common denominator. lol
 

skidflow

Boom Bap is precious art
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 214
It's a shitty song. Knock on it all you want. The dumbasses at Cash Money must really be stupid to make millions of bucks off the ringtone of a shitty song.

They understand that the public is:

A. Stupid
B. Will buy anything you market to them.
C. Always market to the lowest common denominator in pop/hip-pop

If I want real hip-hop I put in some M.U.R.S. or El-P. Don't knock me cuz I'm telling it to you the way it is.
Trust me G.O.D, I aint knocking you my friend. I appreciate you telling us how shit really is. It just so happens the "way shit is" is fucked up. RESPECT goes further and last longer than any check will. If record companies stop putting out bullshit, "the lowest common denominator" mufuckas wont have bullshit to buy. If they put out "real shit"(good music) they wont have any choice but to buy "real shit"(good music)...just like I dont have a choice but to dig,purchase, and download "real shit" (good music) off the internet. The fact is that the powers that be dont want music with substance that will educate and hip people. In HIP HOP you had eras where cats got influenced off of Gangsta rap and God body rap (5%ter type shit) Those were considered movements in hip hop and the "powers that be" cant have people getting a "SPARK IN CONSCIOUSNESS" just because of the music they listen too so they market "soulless music" the deaden the the senses. After years of this abuse you tend to lose feeling on what "real shit" is anyway. Everyone knows that "real shit"(good music) will outsell this bullshit thats being played on the radio today...the problem is that "real shit"(good music) is not productive to the "AGENDA" But back to what you were saying about the record company marketing shemes...yeah thats a fool proof way to make money of the ignorant, but have people forgot that there is millions of cats that feel like us on this site...why isn't anyone tapping into this market on a mainstream level?
 

skidflow

Boom Bap is precious art
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 214
as usual your correct, just venting is all..

Ive actually started making a whole branch of trax now aimed at the lowest common denomintor..
In fact I may call that whole collection or album lowest common denominator. lol
Naw dude...thats being part of the problem. Someone gotta market to the highest common denominator or the music gonna die (spiritually)
 
I agree with skid that if the market wasnt so full of talentless tripe and just quality spiritually and mentally uplifting tracks then the ignorant masses will only have good quality music to buy, and actually learn from and be inspired by.
I was greatly inspired by artists like KRS 1 and Brand Nubian. Music with meaning, other than building up the bank balance. Music has the great power to change opinion and guide "the masses", to say this isnt true is wrong. I can say that I was inspired and educated by some of the older tracks.
But there really is a political agenda to what gets released in the "BIZ"
Look what happened to those texas girls who criticised GW and the iraq war. I forget their names but I dont forget how they were shunned by the "industry" for speaking truth.
Truth has no place in the media anymore it would seem, and the content of the tracks suffers as a result, as do the IQ's of the people listening to it.
I would like to see some good quality independent labels spring up and collaborate on spreading some truth back into the world. Where the message is more important than the excessive profit margins. A reasonable profit is okay, but when profits get ridiculous then I think some of that money gained through exploitation of the stupid, should be put back into the communties to try and change some of the big problems we have in the world right now.GREED being one of them.
 

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
Trust me G.O.D, I aint knocking you my friend. I appreciate you telling us how shit really is. It just so happens the "way shit is" is fucked up. RESPECT goes further and last longer than any check will. If record companies stop putting out bullshit, "the lowest common denominator" mufuckas wont have bullshit to buy. If they put out "real shit"(good music) they wont have any choice but to buy "real shit"(good music)...just like I dont have a choice but to dig,purchase, and download "real shit" (good music) off the internet. The fact is that the powers that be dont want music with substance that will educate and hip people. In HIP HOP you had eras where cats got influenced off of Gangsta rap and God body rap (5%ter type shit) Those were considered movements in hip hop and the "powers that be" cant have people getting a "SPARK IN CONSCIOUSNESS" just because of the music they listen too so they market "soulless music" the deaden the the senses. After years of this abuse you tend to lose feeling on what "real shit" is anyway. Everyone knows that "real shit"(good music) will outsell this bullshit thats being played on the radio today...the problem is that "real shit"(good music) is not productive to the "AGENDA" But back to what you were saying about the record company marketing shemes...yeah thats a fool proof way to make money of the ignorant, but have people forgot that there is millions of cats that feel like us on this site...why isn't anyone tapping into this market on a mainstream level?




No the public really is stupid, thats why they market that music to them, I used to think that if only we made smart music and they would push it it would smartin everyone up...
It wont, thats why Im making both, because if you want to get ON then you best have some dumb shit ready and trust me I got some! lol
God didnt get to be where hes at, I bet, by runnin around trying to get everyone to make smart music.
Now I appreciate, and would appear that he does too, smart higher level music lovers and makers like ourselves, but that doesnt equal out into the figures that pay the bills when all is said and done at the label.
Thus LCD.
 

skidflow

Boom Bap is precious art
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 214
No the public really is stupid, thats why they market that music to them, I used to think that if only we made smart music and they would push it it would smartin everyone up...
It wont, thats why Im making both, because if you want to get ON then you best have some dumb shit ready and trust me I got some! lol
God didnt get to be where hes at, I bet, by runnin around trying to get everyone to make smart music.
Now I appreciate, and would appear that he does too, smart higher level music lovers and makers like ourselves, but that doesnt equal out into the figures that pay the bills when all is said and done at the label.
Thus LCD.
I dont give a damn about "smartening people up really. All I care about is listening to good hip hop music with a authentic feel. People like these songs nowdays cuz they hear it all day on the radio..we dont have a choice. All I really saying is that you can push any one thing and without a choice what are listeners to do? I dont knock G.O.D for what he stands for...hell some one has to breathe life into the evil. He cant be all bad though...he's hippin us to some good shit. Just make sure you make that change before the "real hip hop" resurgence takes place....remember you gotta profit off that also.
 

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
Ive actually started making a whole branch of trax now aimed at the lowest common denomintor..
In fact I may call that whole collection or album lowest common denominator. lol

Look, I know of a band that took the same approach. Initially they were all about writing what they wanted (normal for any artist.) They wrote songs about all types of shit. They kept pushing to get signed and everything fell on deaf ears. Think they had a couple showcases given to them at the mercy of friends.

Then the guitarist wisened up after hating his job at a coffee shop, getting older and not having anything to show for it. He and the lead singer started writing love songs and shit that their girlfriends liked. They did it as a joke, with cheesy fucking choruses. Anyway, they scored off those songs almost immediately and got a publishing deal. The guitarist now sells his songs to pop stars. I think he has a Porsche.

Maroon 5 also had a similar trajectory, started off as an alt-grunge band called Kara's Flowers. They had no success, switched up to a cheesy love-music band, and their lead singer drives an Aston Martin.

I guess the point an artist has to think is -- when do I get sick of the daily grind and just sell the fuck out, so I don't have to worry about bills.

The thing is, Relic, take the LCD approach as a joke, experiment with it, and see if it works out. Don't stop doing your other shit though.

Trust me G.O.D, I aint knocking you my friend. I appreciate you telling us how shit really is. It just so happens the "way shit is" is fucked up. RESPECT goes further and last longer than any check will.

Disagree, respect matters-- but money matters too. People respect money. Lionel Richie owns a fucking castle in Beverly Hills and is a multimillionaire many times over. He sold out. I don't think he gives a shit about respect (although his wife did beat the fuck out of him). He has a comfortable life has FREEDOM from the daily grind and can do whatever the fuck he wants.

The music industry is filled with rappers who were about respect, didn't make the right move, and are fucked over. I think they would trade places with a pussy like Lionel Richie any day when they're cracked out living in a fucking cardboard box in Corona Park reminiscing about their "glory days".

If record companies stop putting out bullshit, "the lowest common denominator" mufuckas wont have bullshit to buy. If they put out "real shit"(good music) they wont have any choice but to buy "real shit"(good music)...just like I dont have a choice but to dig,purchase, and download "real shit" (good music) off the internet.

Wrong. People will just stop buying the music. A demand will be sought for stupid music, and there you have it -- the market corrects itself.

The fact is that the powers that be dont want music with substance that will educate and hip people.

I can look online right now and find a ton of real heads that are true to hip-hop. Guess what? They appeal to a small demographic.

Don't let me bring up the Lupe Fiasco example....

In HIP HOP you had eras where cats got influenced off of Gangsta rap and God body rap (5%ter type shit) Those were considered movements in hip hop and the "powers that be" cant have people getting a "SPARK IN CONSCIOUSNESS" just because of the music they listen too so they market "soulless music" the deaden the the senses. After years of this abuse you tend to lose feeling on what "real shit" is anyway.

Hip-hop WAS a movement. Now there are underground "movements" in hip-hop that should be surfacing. I honestly thought the backpacker demo would take off. Still hasn't.

Everyone knows that "real shit"(good music) will outsell this bullshit thats being played on the radio today...the problem is that "real shit"(good music) is not productive to the "AGENDA"

The main AGENDA is to make a SHITLOAD of money.


but have people forgot that there is millions of cats that feel like us on this site...why isn't anyone tapping into this market on a mainstream level?

Okay, where were the millions of real hiphopheads that bought the first Lupe Fiasco album? There weren't any. That record didn't even get a gold record. Supporting cats like him would've sent a message.

Why do you think he dumbed down to chart a Top 40 hit with "Superstar." He needs money, and as an artist he would create a couple dumb songs that sell, and then put "smarter" songs on his albums. He wisened up and learned that the mainstream audience is the lowest common denominator. His current album, "The Cool", went gold and his single is making him good coin.

People didn't buy his first record, which was a masterpiece, in droves. What did they buy? The album with fucking "Superstar" on it-- a dumbed down song. Why? Because they like the fucking CHORUS. I asked a friend about the song, and she said, yeah I love that song. Does she know/give a shit about what Lupe is rapping about. No -- "I like the chorus" she said.

He did it to survive and be a bankable artist.

Where were the millions of concerned hiphopheads on Lupe's album, Common's earlier albums and a ton of other cats' albums. Hell, Black Eyed Peas were on their indie/Rawkus sound before they realized "shit, we need to get paid, or we're gonna get dropped. Let's hire Fergie, write pop and sell out."

My advice to ANY artist, especially if you WANT to sell but keep some integrity. Write a two-three lowest common denominator songs-- with catchy choruses, sing along shit. Have the rest of your tracks be where you spit wordplay, multis, metas, etc.

Again, Skidflow, we're just having a little difference of opinion here. No disrespect is meant, homie.
 
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