The sampling lie?

[Fade]

Just a few years after I started making beats, I realized that some of the most popular Hip Hop beats of all time were sort of a lie. I didn't realize that a lot of those beats were full of full loops from famous songs. I naively thought that the producer actually created that music but that's not true.

Even to this day I still discover some of my favorite songs from the 80s and 90s that contained lots of obviously blatant samples that it's borderline ridiculous.

I just wanted to open up a dialogue about this topic because it's like we've all be fooled by this! Look at how many times Bob James was sampled. It's crazy. David Axelrod. Joe Chambers. Donald Byrd. The list goes on.

It's not a knock to sampling really, it's just been so eye-opening that so many beats were made will full pieces of music. This is why to this day I try to model my beats after The Bomb Squad because Shocklee and them would take little tiny pieces of music to create a loop, rather than jack an entire piece.

Anyway, what was your "a-ha" moment?

Here's an example:

 

[Iron Keys]

YES.

Exactly this, my guy.

When i was starting out, and for ages really, even last year there's so many records that I saw as inspiration and used to try and create similar sounding joints, only to later realise the key hooks or sounds etc weren't even created by the producer, just straight up sampled. I'm trying to get used to the idea myself, but it aways feels like "cheating".

But make no mistake, it's still a *producer* talent to spot, take, and use something you know will be a hit or slap.

Still hard to accept, but a lot of your fave hiphop records will have been sampled (and not in the clear and obvious boombap styled way).

For me i feel it almost takes away ownership or originality (it shouldn't), and this is a hindering mindset that can actually interfere with you just making good music. Even made me a bit apprehensive about collabs.

Just make hot music. And stay ill.

 

[Iron Keys]

See if you illiens recognise the first 20 seconds of this record...

Spoiler: Answer:

 

[Fade]

Years ago I saw a video of some guys digging, I can't remember if it was DITC or whatever but it hit me that guys from that era would look for straight up loops rather than sounds. Like you said, it still takes skill and talent to find something dope but to me even if you find a loop, do something with it, even if that means just rearranging the parts.

The other day I came across a Youtube channel where guys post old and rare music, but for pure enjoyment. Yet, what happens? If you check the comments it's all people checking the channel so they can sample the song. Most will take the first 5-10 seconds and just loop it, then they post a link to their beat on Soundcloud!

That's ridiculous.

 

[OGBama]

I @Fade @Iron Keys love samples when they don't seem obvious like:



and this is one of many hip hop songs I need a late pass for discovering as of a few years ago as I'm mainly familiar with



I finally bought the CD new in 2015 before stores like F.Y.E. disappeared in my city permanently.

 

[OGBama]

I @Fade and @Iron Keys feel sampling, while it can be and is an art in the right skilled hands, but more akin to a sound collage, restricts hip hop as far as album reissues and more importantly, live performance(s).

 

[Iron Keys]

Years ago I saw a video of some guys digging, I can't remember if it was DITC or whatever but it hit me that guys from that era would look for straight up loops rather than sounds. Like you said, it still takes skill and talent to find something dope but to me even if you find a loop, do something with it, even if that means just rearranging the parts.

The other day I came across a Youtube channel where guys post old and rare music, but for pure enjoyment. Yet, what happens? If you check the comments it's all people checking the channel so they can sample the song. Most will take the first 5-10 seconds and just loop it, then they post a link to their beat on Soundcloud!

That's ridiculous.

Ah man, that last part ha. I been trying to find a good resource for old things to do exactly that. well not *exactly* but yeh haha.

 

[Iron Keys]

The thing that perplexes me sometimes is, sometimes the samples sound so good in the new record i can't tell if they sampled it or got it remade. 'Cause sometimes i listen to it and think 'shit, how did they sample that into the song without all the annoying bits etc', 'cause sometimes i hear songs I'd really love to sample (even tho I'm not a sample type dude), but half the time (most the time), the part i want to sample has too much other nonsense going on even if there's not much going on but feels like one background element or something else makes it unusable but it's the kind of thing like those top producers would sample no issue.

So i dunno if they're getting samples remade or what, or how they're getting them to soundso good n clean in their records.

Any idea?

 

[Fade]

The thing that perplexes me sometimes is, sometimes the samples sound so good in the new record i can't tell if they sampled it or got it remade. 'Cause sometimes i listen to it and think 'shit, how did they sample that into the song without all the annoying bits etc', 'cause sometimes i hear songs I'd really love to sample (even tho I'm not a sample type dude), but half the time (most the time), the part i want to sample has too much other nonsense going on even if there's not much going on but feels like one background element or something else makes it unusable but it's the kind of thing like those top producers would sample no issue.

So i dunno if they're getting samples remade or what, or how they're getting them to soundso good n clean in their records.

Any idea?

Exactly. When it's something so clean at first I thought that maybe they got their hands on the masters lol but that would never happen. They must replay the sample to get a clean version. I think it's interpolation or something like that. Dre did that a lot from what I remember.

 

[OGBama]

It's @Fade interpolation.

 

[Iron Keys]

Exactly. When it's something so clean at first I thought that maybe they got their hands on the masters lol but that would never happen. They must replay the sample to get a clean version. I think it's interpolation or something like that. Dre did that a lot from what I remember.

It's also a good way to bypass recording copyright, leaving you to only need clearance from the publisher/writer.

 

[Face Valid]

I remember listening to 2Pac California Love when I was younger thinking Dre composed such an amazing track! Obviously later on learnt about his use of interpolation. Still great work as a producer though. Also remember buying CDs like Ice Cube's AmeriKKKas Most Wanted and seeing loads of credit notes listing out the samples and interpolations, it was Bomb Squad so was pretty hectic!
I'm not a fan of the wholesale sample, but sometimes it can be good, like Nas' The Message, which lifts a Sting song.
Another one was 'Ghetto Superstar' Pras Michel - interploates Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton!!!

 

[Fade]

Also remember buying CDs like Ice Cube's AmeriKKKas Most Wanted and seeing loads of credit notes listing out the samples and interpolations, it was Bomb Squad so was pretty hectic!

Yo I still don't know how they used Atomic Dog on that album. It's crazy to think how they flipped those samples with old school equipment.

 

[Face Valid]

Yo I still don't know how they used Atomic Dog on that album. It's crazy to think how they flipped those samples with old school equipment.

Yeah that opening track blew me away, so many switch ups and it's effortless. Love it when the horns come in. But yeah Atomic Dog gives it that funky groove.

 

[Fade]

Sir Jinx is one of the most underrated producers of all time.

 

[Face Valid]

Yeah him and DJ Quik. No one ever talks about Quik!

 

[Fade]

Yeah him and DJ Quik. No one ever talks about Quik!

I'm a huge fan of Quik's old stuff, and then when he came out with Rhythmalism I was blown away. His production really elevated on that one.

 

[TWU]

Give me an Amen break and you just described a whole subgenre of music...

But seriously, music is always evolving on something already existing. Every type or piece of music has it's origins (inspired by something else).

So for hiphop, back then you could get away with looping an entire sample. There weren't a lot of producers but a lot of crates to dig. Right now everyone uses 808's but within 20 years you look back and maybe think why they used the same kit over and over...

Music as it is right now is very wide available in all it's genres thanks to internet. It's like a big tree growing exponential. The crate is bottomless. It's all been done, every story has been told, all chords have been played, all samples have been looped, chopped, reversed etc.

 

[Delta_Nine]

My aha moment was probably dre.

Art is subjective. In hiphop, people like what they like. Roc Marciano would loop a 2 bar, and dirty up a little and boom. That's ill TO ME. I chop here and they're but I'm not a fan of over chopped samples. I look for loops, almost exclusively. But, that's me. I make music that I like to listen to. I have a certain aesthetic that I'm reaching for. So blatantly "stealing" a sample I'll do with no second thought.
Somewhere, I read that sampling is a sort of history writing and I agree with this statement.
Yeah, I agree sampling bob James and deodato gets a bit played out after a while, but by sampling, you are exposing the listener to music they may haven't heard before. So fuck yeah, I'm I'm sampling these older genres and reinterpreting in my own way.

That's just me tho, and my musical tastes.
Loop that 4 bar loop, fuck it. If that's what you like aesthetically, then go for it. To me, I feel samples have more "feeling or soul" if u will, as supposed to a plugin producer. Again I'm speaking from a subjective POV.

Awesome read tho, its cool to see what some of the other members feel about the issue. Music is music tho, i love it all (well, most of it haha) who am I to tell you what you are doing isn't correct ( which is why I refuse to get in the trap or bap debate). Keep that shit Ill like boss man said. Boom.

 

[Delta_Nine]

Dre was my aha moment. Then rza made me fall in love with sampling.
Yo, who else just loves a 2 or 4 bar loop, add a filter and dirty it up a bit, boom. That's ILL to me.
Love that type of aesthetic.

I read that sampling is a sort of history writing. With samples, you may be exposing the listener to music they never heard before.
I love the new music today, but I think sample based music, when done correctly, hits my heart more than the former.
Maybe its because I grew up listening to more older stuff, and I feel connected to older music, idk. Some trappy stuff is good tho, im not on that trap vs bap bullshit. Art is art, and we all like different stuff. But yeah, jazzy loops is my jam.

Dope to see the members perspective on the issue. One thing I do agree with fade the bossman, is, keep it ILL. peace.